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SANA-WM, a 2.6B open-source world model for 1-minute 720p video

nvlabs.github.io

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Re: SANA-WM, a 2.6B open-source world model for 1-minute 720p video

#121

Post by stephen_cagle »

mplewis wrote: post #105
stephen_cagle wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect these models will be like old Gutenberg's printing press. A rapid rise in the amount of content; most of it not that great. However the sheer volume will result in even more high quality content actually being created in aggregate. Put another way, the average game quality will go down, but the actual rate of "Great" games will go up.

But these aren't great games. They are not even good. They are just tech demos with nothing of interest to gamers. Why do I need more slopware? I have an entire Steam library of excellent games that deserve to be played first.

Agreed, these aren't even games currently. I am just saying that world models will lower the barrier to entry to making games. Which might mean that 1 in 1000 of the lower-barrier-to-entry-people might someday makes a great game. So more great games in aggregate, but more bad games on average.

Re: SANA-WM, a 2.6B open-source world model for 1-minute 720p video

#122

Post by accrual »

danielbln wrote: post #32
robot_jesus wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By and large I agree, but it doesn’t need to be either/or. Many of the most popular games in the past decade are procedurally generated and have nothing “intentionally” placed (apart from tuning/tweaking the balance of the seeding algorithms).

Which game would that be apart from Minecraft?

A recent example is Megabonk, a rouge-like with procedural levels. Each run is unique but the levels have a consistent theme.

Re: SANA-WM, a 2.6B open-source world model for 1-minute 720p video

#123

Post by hattmall »

stephen_cagle wrote: post #120
whilenot-dev wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have to disagree here as I don't subscribe to your analogy. GenAI can be considered a tool, yes, but it's less a "circular saw for workshops"-tool, and more a "microwave for kitchens"-tool... and I doubt microwaves led to higher quality content in aggregate.

I feel like a circular saw is a creator tool, while a microwave is mostly a finishing tool. I take raw material and make something out of it with a circular saw, largely unrestrained by anything other than cost, skill, and material. With a microwave, I make things hot so I can eat them. Aside: Also, I wonder why that is? Why do we regard the microwave as "degenerate" compared to the oven? Why is baking seen as a call…

Tbh, most people actually don't know how to microwave. The typical microwave users just trys to "one-shot" it by punching in a time and using high heat.

Proper microwaving is what gave rise to the entire concept of "fast casual" restaurants, famously AppleBees (or "club B's" in the late night focus iterations!)

Complex entrees that could be partially cooked and frozen. Then rapidly microwaved on a custom program that varies the timing and intensity of cooking. Then finished on a grill or conventional heat source for less than 1 minutes.

Microwaving food generally produces a lower quality finished product. But you can take a similar approach at home. The short cut is to just double the cooking time and cook at 50% power. Then throw whatever the item is in a preheated pan for about 1 minute if it's applicable. Other variations are possible too, I air fry finish most things like chicken nuggets, tater tots etc and the difference is considerable while still offer a significantly reduced cooking time.

Re: SANA-WM, a 2.6B open-source world model for 1-minute 720p video

#125

Post by stirfish »

hattmall wrote: post #123
stephen_cagle wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like a circular saw is a creator tool, while a microwave is mostly a finishing tool. I take raw material and make something out of it with a circular saw, largely unrestrained by anything other than cost, skill, and material. With a microwave, I make things hot so I can eat them. Aside: Also, I wonder why that is? Why do we regard the microwave as "degenerate" compared to the oven? Why is baking seen as a call…

Tbh, most people actually don't know how to microwave. The typical microwave users just trys to "one-shot" it by punching in a time and using high heat. Proper microwaving is what gave rise to the entire concept of "fast casual" restaurants, famously AppleBees (or "club B's" in the late night focus iterations!) Complex entrees that could be partially cooked and frozen. Then rapidly microwaved on a custom program that…

I have a collection of vintage microwave cookbooks and they get real fancy, with techniques like wrapping the thin parts of fish with aluminum foil so they don't burn. Volume 5 had a full Thanksgiving dinner. I think the goal was to sell more microwaves to people who weren't sure what they could do. Fascinating stuff.

I have used none of those recipes. The microwave is for making cold pizza 10% more palatable (or 80% more palatable if I've been drinking). In that regard, the LLMs are microwaves really works for me: if I'm using one I either I want something fast and casual, or I'm drunk.

Re: SANA-WM, a 2.6B open-source world model for 1-minute 720p video

#126

Post by bredren »

Lerc wrote: post #42
mccoyb wrote: post #16

I struggle with these world models from the perspective of video games (so this post is a particular perspective). I'm not a game developer myself, but some of my favorite games carry a deep sense of intentionality. For instance, there is typically not a single item misplaced in a FromSoftware game (or, for instance, Lies of P -- more recently). Almost every object is placed intentionally. Games which lack this inten…

There are two things here, firstly, Without AI, you can have heavily designed environments or you can have procedurally generated, people manage to make both work. Both can also fail because of reasons specific to the approach. Careless procedural generation can produce a poor variety or nonsensical outputs. Careless specific placement can violate any rules that a game has established creating an incoherent experienc…

This intentionality in the application of AI is very confusing for folks because at first glance it seems like it should just work.

It seems to, even.

Whereas if you hand a router to someone with a flush trim but in it and ask them to clean up the edge of a table they will take one look at it and nope away from that dangerous spinning thing.

If they have the mind to give it a shot and despite a quality tool and bit they bite into the table and ruin the line (or something much worse) no one will be surprised—-they have no experience or recognition of what expertise is in woodworking.

But with AI, it is much more hazy what expertise is.

The methodology for quality results is changing each week and the articulation in personal tooling involved makes it challenging to adopt another “expert”’s workflows.

Re: SANA-WM, a 2.6B open-source world model for 1-minute 720p video

#127

Post by w10-1 »

Gist:

> 720p, 1-min video generation with 6-DoF camera control

As nl said,

> The model is out here: https://huggingface.co/Efficient-Large-Model/SANA-Video_2B_7...

README says "intended for research use only"

Code license is Apache 2.0

Model license (nvidia open...) says

    Models are commercially usable.
    You are free to create and distribute Derivative Models
(As usual: model output is unrestricted, and also unprotectable absent human authoring)

Re: SANA-WM, a 2.6B open-source world model for 1-minute 720p video

#128

Post by dasyatidprime »

stephen_cagle wrote: post #120
whilenot-dev wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have to disagree here as I don't subscribe to your analogy. GenAI can be considered a tool, yes, but it's less a "circular saw for workshops"-tool, and more a "microwave for kitchens"-tool... and I doubt microwaves led to higher quality content in aggregate.

I feel like a circular saw is a creator tool, while a microwave is mostly a finishing tool. I take raw material and make something out of it with a circular saw, largely unrestrained by anything other than cost, skill, and material. With a microwave, I make things hot so I can eat them. Aside: Also, I wonder why that is? Why do we regard the microwave as "degenerate" compared to the oven? Why is baking seen as a call…

You might both be interested in https://malmesbury.substack.com/p/my-journey-to-the-microwav... regarding the history of microwave cooking (not mine). The microwave oven wasn't known destined to be relegated to lowbrow cookery from the beginning, even if that's how it turned out from our perspective, and some of the more advanced techniques developed for it fell out of use.

Re: SANA-WM, a 2.6B open-source world model for 1-minute 720p video

#129

Post by afzalive »

bredren wrote: post #126
Lerc wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two things here, firstly, Without AI, you can have heavily designed environments or you can have procedurally generated, people manage to make both work. Both can also fail because of reasons specific to the approach. Careless procedural generation can produce a poor variety or nonsensical outputs. Careless specific placement can violate any rules that a game has established creating an incoherent experienc…

This intentionality in the application of AI is very confusing for folks because at first glance it seems like it should just work. It seems to, even. Whereas if you hand a router to someone with a flush trim but in it and ask them to clean up the edge of a table they will take one look at it and nope away from that dangerous spinning thing. If they have the mind to give it a shot and despite a quality tool and bit t…

Just like with mass-produced materials vs hand-crafted stuff, you're gonna have a lot of crap quality and rare, expensive good quality stuff.

Re: SANA-WM, a 2.6B open-source world model for 1-minute 720p video

#130

Post by avaer »

nl wrote: post #119
jubilanti wrote: post #53

Model weights coming "soon" == currently vaporware. So the weights aren't even open, how can this be "open-source"? Everyone is right to be skeptical of this coming from a 2.8B model. Weights or it didn't happen.

The model is out here: https://huggingface.co/Efficient-Large-Model/SANA-Video_2B_7...

Is it the same model? The naming is confusing but my understanding is the WM version is not the same as the Video, though I'm sure they are highly related.
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