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Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

nytimes.com

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Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#121

Post by impossiblefork »

Xeronate wrote: post #26

I understand the vision, but how does this work on a global scale. e.g. American employees refuse to build this, but China's don't. Edit: I originally ended with "What would have happened if Germany had a nuclear bomb and America didn't?", but I think it distracted from the point I was trying to make so moving this to an edit. I'm not trying to ask "is the US the bad guy". I'm trying to ask how to balance personal an…

Well, then military use of some US commercial AI systems will be subject to minimal restrictions while Chinese AI might not be.

Thus some people avoid having to see their work used for killing people or in mass surveillance, so that they're actually able to contribute to AI development instead of leaving the field.

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#122

Post by pjc50 »

boxedemp wrote: post #70
protocolture wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>American employees refuse to build this, but China's don't. How about you articulate the threat from an AI powered China to people outside of AI powered China and discuss potential methods to counter that, instead of insisting capabilities be developed just in case. >is the US the bad guy Yes >I'm trying to ask how to balance personal anti war sentiments with the realities of the world Insist on open information, ne…

The threat seems straightforward to me; information warfare.

The US is a major exporter of that. Including Google itself via the YouTube recommendations algorithm.

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#123

Post by fuy »

dang wrote: post #102
fuy wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

We've banned the other account for repeatedly breaking the site guidelines, but - WTF? I don't want to ban you because it doesn't look like you have a habit of posting like this, but please don't do this kind of thing here again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

sorry about that, I appreciate the reminder. Sometimes it's hard to engage in conversations with obvious bots/bad actors in good faith.

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#124

Post by arduanika »

whattheheckheck wrote: post #115
arduanika wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

And maybe you can read a book about adding to the conversation instead of navel gazing oh superior intelligent one who has read so many books but can't add a comment or reference a book to point to a concept that could help add to the shared pool meaning.

The good books, unlike the good podcasts, can rarely be reduced to a single forum comment. You don't read them to cite them as a zinger in an online back-and-forth. You read lots of them, and you cross-reference them with the world around you, to slowly build up a view of the world that's irreducibly complex. You read them to escape yourself and your times -- the exact opposite of "navel gazing", in a sense.

Most books add to "the shared pool [of] meaning", as you say. Pick any one; I didn't have a specific one in mind. The commenter to whom I was responding is in a state where pretty much any well-written book about history would help them out a lot. Something written before 1980 might be especially illuminating.

It might take many books, if they want their comprehension of history to actually be "hardcore".

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#126

Post by maxglute »

Xeronate wrote: post #26

I understand the vision, but how does this work on a global scale. e.g. American employees refuse to build this, but China's don't. Edit: I originally ended with "What would have happened if Germany had a nuclear bomb and America didn't?", but I think it distracted from the point I was trying to make so moving this to an edit. I'm not trying to ask "is the US the bad guy". I'm trying to ask how to balance personal an…

Well game theory aside, the reality is if PRC weaponizes AI, there's a chance they may use it in the future. If US weaponizes AI, they'll definitely be using it to kill people within the calendar year. Employees have to factor that in, for PRC worker their killing people is hypothetical, for US worker, it's inevitable.

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#127

Post by nojvek »

US leaders have realized how much power China CCP has over its citizens. They want to do that. Same with EU.

What makes US US are their transparent integral markets and ability for information , people and goods to move freely.

By using AI for mass surveillance, information can’t move that freely. Free speech gets suppressed. Can’t call the emperor naked.

The Emporer is naked with a poopy diaper. But we can’t say that aloud.

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#128

Post by AlecSchueler »

baq wrote: post #93
Xeronate wrote: post #26

I understand the vision, but how does this work on a global scale. e.g. American employees refuse to build this, but China's don't. Edit: I originally ended with "What would have happened if Germany had a nuclear bomb and America didn't?", but I think it distracted from the point I was trying to make so moving this to an edit. I'm not trying to ask "is the US the bad guy". I'm trying to ask how to balance personal an…

That’s exactly why I think the principled position is naive in a tragedy of the commons situation we’re in - it isn’t a sci fi story with a happy ending, it’s the Manhattan project and 70+ years ago nazi and japanese data centers doing foundational model training would’ve been bombed to smithereens at any cost.

Are we comparing the PRC to early 40s Germany/Japan?

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#129

Post by samusiam »

arduanika wrote: post #87
jmyeet wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to give a shout out here to an episode of the excellent podcast Hardcore History , specifically Episode 59: The Destroyer of Worlds [1]. The development of the atomic bomb created a debate in American policy circles about how the US should react. Within a few years, the same debate occurred over developing thermonuclear weapons. The same question kept coming up: what if the enemy has these weapons and we do…

[flagged]

What primary sources are you referring to? Come with receipts next time instead of just vitriol.

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#130

Post by RickJWagner »

nojvek wrote: post #127

US leaders have realized how much power China CCP has over its citizens. They want to do that. Same with EU. What makes US US are their transparent integral markets and ability for information , people and goods to move freely. By using AI for mass surveillance, information can’t move that freely. Free speech gets suppressed. Can’t call the emperor naked. The Emporer is naked with a poopy diaper. But we can’t say tha…

That seems counter intuitive to me.

Surveillance is information gathering, and synthesizing insights that were previously undiscovered. It makes more information, albeit not shared information.

I suppose it decreases the percentage of information that’s free. But it increases the amount of total information.

About free speech suppression, I don’t see any of that happening. If anything, there is too much being said from across the political spectrum. I’d be happy if people would say less, especially in hyperbole. I can’t see where free speech has been impinged at all.

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