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In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration officials' narratives

reuters.com

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Re: In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration officials' narratives

#121

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

throw0101c wrote: post #67
chasil wrote: post #3

Nonviolent crowd control does not seem to be a core competence of these federal forces. They should augment deployed enforcement with those who have such expertise.

> Nonviolent crowd control does not seem to be a core competence of these federal forces. Why is crowd control even needed? ICE existed for many, many years before now, and them doing their job never caused crowds previously (under both R and D administrations), so what (rhetorically) changed?

They were co-opted to function as Trump's death squads to kill dissidents

Re: In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration officials' narratives

#122

Post by oliwarner »

morgengold wrote: post #119

[flagged]

What problems did "Woke" (I'm not sure it's a thing, but whatever) have with the truth?

Are we talking about opinionated gender vs biological sex? Or how others shouldn't offend? Trans women sports?

If it is, I think these are firmly opinions about inclusion. Asking people to ignore biological sex isn't the same thing as saying he said Greenland when he said Iceland. It's weird that you even think them comparable.

Re: In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration officials' narratives

#123

Post by Jsebast24 »

jaredklewis wrote: post #109
throw0101c wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nonviolent crowd control does not seem to be a core competence of these federal forces. Why is crowd control even needed? ICE existed for many, many years before now, and them doing their job never caused crowds previously (under both R and D administrations), so what (rhetorically) changed?

Well they didn’t wear masks and grab people off the street and shoved them into unmarked vans under previous administrations.

[flagged]

Re: In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration officials' narratives

#124

Post by estearum »

hubber wrote: post #108
throw0101c wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And I'll celebrate with my lawyer if it does. LOL. Why do you assume you'll get a hearing? As Timothy Snyder (an historian of Central and Eastern Europe, the Soviet Union, and the Holocaust) observed last year: > If you accept that non-citizens have no right to due process, you are accepting that citizens have no right to due process. All the government has to do is claim that you are not a citizen; without due pro…

[flagged]

The source of this particular quote is irrelevant, how about you engage with the simple logical structure being put in front of you?

Re: In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration officials' narratives

#125

Post by xtiansimon »

arxari wrote: post #35
metalcrow wrote: post #8

> officials rushed to defend immigration officers without waiting for key facts to emerge – in what former immigration officials called a clear break with past practice for federal agencies Without obscuring how bad is it, I don't believe there was ever a time when officials _didn't_ rush to defend federal officers without waiting for key facts to emerge. The us government has constantly loved to say that no one work…

I think to an extent Trump is a fall guy, even when it comes to Venezuela he was dragged through the mud where his predecessors have constantly undermined the sovereignty of other nations and attacked them under the guise of protecting the US from terrorism when it was about oil and mineral ritches [1], the same with the deportation centers which while they were getting some criticism it was nowhere near the level of…

> “I think to an extent Trump is a fall guy…”

That’s a strange conclusion to make, because the definition of a “fall guy” is someone who takes the blame, while others, who are more culpable, go free. Whereas most critics would say he’s the “kingpin”, and supporters say he’s “the decider”.

You don’t need a very long awareness of political history to find examples of what government was like before to realize the US is in extraordinary times in terms of loyalty to his leadership and presidency. You don’t need to look long before you find repeat examples—from the Congress, the Supreme Court, and his appointees—of individuals making excuses or previously inconceivable accommodations for the president’s conduct, choices, and decisions to then conclude the president is, as they say, “calling the shots”. That is not the characteristic of a “fall guy”, but a “kingpin”.

Personally, I feel we’re lucky that our “dictator-in-chief” is in the pattern of a real estate developer and not, say, a paranoid military general.

Re: In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration officials' narratives

#126

Post by steveBK123 »

estearum wrote: post #69
throw0101c wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nonviolent crowd control does not seem to be a core competence of these federal forces. Why is crowd control even needed? ICE existed for many, many years before now, and them doing their job never caused crowds previously (under both R and D administrations), so what (rhetorically) changed?

Oh this is easy: a gigantic funding increase is being used to massively expand workforce with minimal training, then that workforce is being deployed with an ambiguous mission and apparent arrest quotas, while also being told they’re immune from any criminal liability for their actions (they’re not), including internal memos telling them they’re allowed to enter private homes without judicial warrants (they’re not),…

It's completely intentional choice by the Miller/Noem wing of the admin to create media drama and "own the libs", overriding the Homan wing which was pushing for easy wins rounding up known criminal offenders in custody / in red states / etc.

Re: In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration officials' narratives

#127

Post by locopati »

Jsebast24 wrote: post #123
jaredklewis wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well they didn’t wear masks and grab people off the street and shoved them into unmarked vans under previous administrations.

[flagged]

Is it really a problem though?

Re: In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration officials' narratives

#128

Post by estearum »

Jsebast24 wrote: post #123
jaredklewis wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well they didn’t wear masks and grab people off the street and shoved them into unmarked vans under previous administrations.

[flagged]

Nope. While there was a large increase in immigrant inflows, there is no evidence their enforcement decisions were significantly different than e.g. Trump 1.

What the statistics actually show is that the United States was a far more attractive destination for immigrants under Biden, but that enforcement policies were largely the same. That makes sense since enforcement policy is mostly set by Congress and not by POTUS.

The increased appeal of the US is entirely explained by the fact that the US economy was excelling far beyond any country in the world, and especially any country in the western hemisphere. At the same time, Central and South America were getting hit by successive political and economic shocks amplified by COVID.

The significant reduction in immigrants towards the tail end of Biden is not because they suddenly decided to "follow the law" and "close the border." It's that they decided NOT to follow the law anymore and to unilaterally ignore the asylum laws that Congress actually sets.

This was later struck down in court: https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/district-court-strikes-d...

So really what you're seeing is the difference between the US being a desirable place to come to versus an undesirable one. I'm sympathetic to the argument that there's moral hazard involved in making the US appear to be highly desirable to people who we don't want to accept, but I'm not sympathetic at all to the view that that means the executive can simply ignore whatever laws they want, or they can turn the US into such a dystopian hellhole that only the most desperate immigrants around would bother attempting entry.

Some additional sources:

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/biden-deportation-re...

https://www.cato.org/blog/data-show-trump-wouldve-released-m...

Re: In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration officials' narratives

#129

Post by mritterhoff »

locopati wrote: post #127
Jsebast24 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Is it really a problem though?

It seems to be, given how many people voted for "mass deportations".

It also makes it easier for employers to get away with poor working conditions for those workers.

Re: In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration officials' narratives

#130

Post by hubber »

subdude wrote: post #114
hubber wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

lol, "your people." I've seen enough of you guys in real life to know what lies behind the bold Nazi larp online. Meek, resentful, small men. You may piss your pants at the sight of a non-white person, but 99% of people don't. Nothing you hope for or think is going to happen will happen. The world you yearn for never existed and never will. Much like every other fascist movement in history, the current one will only…

[flagged]
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