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Germany: States Pass Porn Filters for Operating Systems

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Re: Germany: States Pass Porn Filters for Operating Systems

#121

Post by graemep »

earthnail wrote: post #112
graemep wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite the opposite. From the description in the article it will make Linux illegal unless distros and app stores comply with German law. It may ban installation of software from outside locked down app stores.

DEs like KDE already have a kiosk mode. Just add an adblocker to it, for content that’s not child friendly. Done. Zero risk to Linux here.

Read the comments from FSFE - they do not think its simple at all: https://www.heise.de/en/news/Microsoft-Google-Co-Countries-g...

Something like kiosk mode does not cover it. It will have to be locked down to the point of uselessness. From the article:

"Only apps that have an approved youth protection program or a comparable suitable tool themselves will be accessible regardless of the pre-set age group."

Re: Germany: States Pass Porn Filters for Operating Systems

#122

Post by txrx0000 »

noobermin wrote: post #12
Canada wrote: post #11

It's actually better to do this on the device. If you can give children something that is basically whilelisted access then it reduces the need to try to filter the open web.

it being mandated however is an absolute assault on freedom. will linux become outlawed over this?

This is a valid concern. But I think we should reject this law on the basis that it should be a recommendation rather than a mandate, without rejecting its premise entirely, because it actually has some merit.

Filtering on client-side is a good idea and lets parents parent without affecting anyone else, provided the filters work completely offline. And we should make sure governments and parents know this so they don't try to push any more Internet-wide censorship laws.

And instead of mandating it, it should work like movie ratings: OSes that implement parental control features get a "PG-capable" label, then make it illegal for minors to use a non-PG-capable OS. This should not affect adults, and parents can choose to not use it because it's a feature you have to manually turn on.

Re: Germany: States Pass Porn Filters for Operating Systems

#123

Post by lifestyleguru »

jones89176 wrote: post #68
miroljub wrote: post #10

Germany is becoming more and more like North Korea.

while I certainly do oppose many of the cuts of our civil liberties, I think that statement is quite an exaggeration... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Press_Freedom_Index

There are surprisingly popular and frequently visited countries at the bottom of the ranking.

Re: Germany: States Pass Porn Filters for Operating Systems

#125

Post by earthnail »

graemep wrote: post #121
earthnail wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DEs like KDE already have a kiosk mode. Just add an adblocker to it, for content that’s not child friendly. Done. Zero risk to Linux here.

Read the comments from FSFE - they do not think its simple at all: https://www.heise.de/en/news/Microsoft-Google-Co-Countries-g... Something like kiosk mode does not cover it. It will have to be locked down to the point of uselessness. From the article: "Only apps that have an approved youth protection program or a comparable suitable tool themselves will be accessible regardless of the pre-set age group."

I read the article. I just don’t share the criticism.

“Only apps from safe places can be installed.”

Yeah, d’oh. Otherwise, massive loophole.

Yes, it’s a Nintendo-ify button for a PC. It’s opt in. And very convenient for parents.

And if my kid wants to install something, it can come and ask me. Like I had to go and ask my dad before installing sth (before I got my own Linux machine with 14).

Re: Germany: States Pass Porn Filters for Operating Systems

#126

Post by earthnail »

Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #117
earthnail wrote: post #102

I’m gonna go on a limb here and say that I like this draft. It’s an opt-in measure for parents with a one-click solution. Think ad blocker but for adult content. Parents have to actively enable it. It’s on the device itself, not in the internet backbone. No censorship happening; government doesn’t even know whether parents use it. It’s a good solution.

Step 1. Force companies to develop the censorship/surveillant technology by passing a law to make it available. Claim its to 'save the children' and/or 'fight terrorism', whichever threat is currently the most scary. Step 2. Make the use of the technology optional, and fairly non-intrusive to ease acceptance and normalization. Step 3. Make the technology mandatory for certain groups/areas like all schools or certain…

With that way of arguing you can’t have any laws or regulation at all.

Re: Germany: States Pass Porn Filters for Operating Systems

#127

Post by tomhow »

phatfish wrote: post #92
Nextgrid wrote: post #21

Always funny to see the senile politicians blaming porn as the biggest threats to children and not their collapsing economies. I'm sure when those kids grow up and work long hours for the rest of their lives (if they can find a job at all!) just to be able to afford rent they'll at least be grateful they weren't able to access porn in their teenage years.

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Re: Germany: States Pass Porn Filters for Operating Systems

#128

Post by Eddy_Viscosity2 »

slightwinder wrote: post #115
Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they don't fix multiple problems all at once. Most of the time they don't even fix one at a time. And often, as I think is the case here, they pretend they are fixing a problem when really they are doing something else. In this case its the usual 'save the children' wrapping on more rigid control and surveillance of peoples use of computers and the internet.

> But they don't fix multiple problems all at once. No, they do, they do it the whole time. Those might not the problems you care about, and not all attempts might be successful, but each new or changed law/regulation is fixing something. And there are many new of them over the year.

Each new law/regulation is indeed intended to fix something, the problem is what? I'd love to have the optimism that its the problems that population are experiencing, but in most cases its the problems that the rich and powerful are experiencing. Like 'the internet is allowing people too much power to communicate with each other without state intervention', so they fix it with laws to remove that power. Or 'I am very extremely wealthy, but I want to be in more wealthy, and other people to be poorer so my great wealth has more relative power', so they pass laws to cut social programs to fund high income tax cuts. And so on,..

Re: Germany: States Pass Porn Filters for Operating Systems

#129

Post by txrx0000 »

earthnail wrote: post #116
txrx0000 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is the right direction for moderation features in general assuming it's implemented offline on-device and works without contacting a remote server. It eliminates excuses to implement age verification online. And it's correct in principle: each parent should be able to decide what their child sees, but not what anyone else's child sees. Parenting a child is the responsibility of that child's parents, but it…

We have mandates for all kinds of things, like movie ratings etc. I think it’s appropriate here. It just makes it easy. I don’t understand the pushback from tech companies either; all OSes already have a kiosk mode (incl the major Linux DEs). Should be very low effort to implement.

The concern is that OSes which don't implement the feature will be outlawed.

Movie ratings don't outlaw movies and actually provides a good framework: instead of mandating that OSes implement this, publish a client-side filter spec that OS devs can choose to implement. And if they implement it, their OS gets a label like "PG-capable". Then make it illegal for minors to possess a non-PG-capable device.

Re: Germany: States Pass Porn Filters for Operating Systems

#130

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

bko wrote: post #81
Nextgrid wrote: post #21

Always funny to see the senile politicians blaming porn as the biggest threats to children and not their collapsing economies. I'm sure when those kids grow up and work long hours for the rest of their lives (if they can find a job at all!) just to be able to afford rent they'll at least be grateful they weren't able to access porn in their teenage years.

Wouldn't the more reasonable argument be "The economy is failing. Keep the kids gooning to distract them"

Let the kids think they're getting away with something. It's actually in 1984, literally teens thinking they're rebelling by getting access to porn.
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