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NoLongerEvil-Thermostat – Nest Generation 1 and 2 Firmware

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Re: NoLongerEvil-Thermostat – Nest Generation 1 and 2 Firmware

#121

Post by mattmaroon »

Aurornis wrote: post #108
skybrian wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you say it's unusable? Our Nest thermostat seems to be working fine as a normal (offline) thermostat. I don't see a reason to replace it. I'm not even sure when I would want a network-enabled thermostat. We inherited it from the previous owners.

Google disabled cloud services, and therefore the app. The remote control features were a key reason many bought these. Can you edit schedules directly on the thermostat? From what I recall, much of the functionality required the app. That can’t be used now. If you’re only using it as an analog dial to set the temperature, you won’t miss anything. However the majority of functionality is now gone from the devices.

You can edit the schedule on the device but it isn’t fun. The UI is just basically a dial that can click. And there’s no copy paste.

Re: NoLongerEvil-Thermostat – Nest Generation 1 and 2 Firmware

#122

Post by bastawhiz »

skybrian wrote: post #103
bastawhiz wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google is at least the devil we know, here. Google has left these devices essentially completely unusable. You're not trading up Google because Google already abandoned these devices by shutting off the lights. Even if you don't agree with how robust their service is, they're offering you the ability to turn what's effectively e-waste into an operable device.

Why do you say it's unusable? Our Nest thermostat seems to be working fine as a normal (offline) thermostat. I don't see a reason to replace it. I'm not even sure when I would want a network-enabled thermostat. We inherited it from the previous owners.

It's an Internet connected device that will never receive updates and has none of the features that justify its existence above a $20 dumb thermostat. If you inherited it and don't care about the features and never used it anyway, I'm not sure why you'd care either way.

If you'd bought it for hundreds of dollars for the things it promised to do, you'd probably be much more excited to learn that you at least aren't stuck with a device that was made intentionally dumb by the manufacturer. They're perfectly capable of doing what they were designed to do!

Re: NoLongerEvil-Thermostat – Nest Generation 1 and 2 Firmware

#123

Post by mechanicalpulse »

gnuplustoejam wrote: post #78
khamidou wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is for people who have already bought a nest and got burnt by the deprecation of their online services. Of course they could get another thermostat but then that'd just be more stuff for the landfills.

Early generation Nest hardware was garbage, and was known for blowing FETs that failed closed, turning people's ACs into giant ice cubes. Putting it in the landfill would be doing yourself a favor. The ex-Apple culture in the early history of Nest was evident, which ostensibly spec'd FETs over mechanical relays for superficial reasons, because clicking sounds are ugly. The results were in the spirit of other Apple en…

Well that's certainly a take. Solid state relays using optoisolated MOSFETs have been around for fifty years. Mechanical relays are overkill for signal switching as in HVAC thermostats, IMHO, but you do you.

Anecdotally, I have a first generation Nest and haven't had a problem. Maybe some of the earlier hardware had fewer protection against misuse (e.g., with non-24VAC systems or otherwise incorrect installation), but that's generally the case with most new things.

Re: NoLongerEvil-Thermostat – Nest Generation 1 and 2 Firmware

#124

Post by Arrath »

Nursie wrote: post #116
pandora-health wrote: post #15

If your boiler supports OpenTherm then get this thermostat controller https://github.com/Alexwijn/SAT Weather comp + low load comp + PID which means your room temperature works at the precision range supported by your temperature sensor. In my case, within 0.02 Celsius. Saves energy and makes your house more comfortable. Operated via home assistant. See real time data in Grafana https://gasboiler.grafana.net/public-d…

We replaced a boiler in our last house a few years back. We got a Vaillant, at least in part because I found that there was a Vaillant add-on board available which could do OpenTherm, and the nest controller could do that in theory too. When it came to the install I was told in no uncertain terms that even though they produced the board and it was compatible with my boiler, any attempt at installation by myself or th…

How absurd, that official, first party addons would flatly void the warranty. Shouldn't be legal.

Re: NoLongerEvil-Thermostat – Nest Generation 1 and 2 Firmware

#125

Post by Nursie »

Arrath wrote: post #124
Nursie wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We replaced a boiler in our last house a few years back. We got a Vaillant, at least in part because I found that there was a Vaillant add-on board available which could do OpenTherm, and the nest controller could do that in theory too. When it came to the install I was told in no uncertain terms that even though they produced the board and it was compatible with my boiler, any attempt at installation by myself or th…

How absurd, that official, first party addons would flatly void the warranty. Shouldn't be legal.

'official' was the problem I think - I bought the addon from Vaillant Europe, but Vaillant UK seemed to disavow it, even though the boiler models and interfaces were the same. :sigh:

Re: NoLongerEvil-Thermostat – Nest Generation 1 and 2 Firmware

#126

Post by thefroh »

z3ugma wrote: post #114
buggeryorkshire wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's reliant on a bounty iirc for the server and device side code to be open-sourced. Will be about an hour after that I reckon and I cannot wait to contribute.

After you flash the exploit and SSH into the thermostat you can see it at https://github.com/codykociemba/NoLongerEvil-Thermostat/issu... It's a boot script called /bin/nolongerevil.sh that supplies its own trust material and redirects traffic intended for frontdoor.nest.com to a hard-coded IP 15.204.110.215. 99.9% of this image is the original copyrighted Nest image. Maybe it's enough for the bounty though? And I su…

presumably it's the reverse engineered server that has most of the work put into it, and one would hope that's what is going to be released if the developer decides to

Re: NoLongerEvil-Thermostat – Nest Generation 1 and 2 Firmware

#127

Post by yummypaint »

mattmaroon wrote: post #121
Aurornis wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google disabled cloud services, and therefore the app. The remote control features were a key reason many bought these. Can you edit schedules directly on the thermostat? From what I recall, much of the functionality required the app. That can’t be used now. If you’re only using it as an analog dial to set the temperature, you won’t miss anything. However the majority of functionality is now gone from the devices.

You can edit the schedule on the device but it isn’t fun. The UI is just basically a dial that can click. And there’s no copy paste.

Yep I have this and it's total garbage. The scheduling options feel designed to troll, serious MacBook wheel vibes. No way to temporarily disable the schedule if you're going out of town. Either turn your HVAC off entirely, or delete the entire schedule and manually reenter the whole thing when you get back (who doesn't love life-wasting menu diving after a long trip?).

Re: NoLongerEvil-Thermostat – Nest Generation 1 and 2 Firmware

#128

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

khamidou wrote: post #77
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #72

Whoever made this needs to add a license right now with at least some kind of indemnity/no-warranty clause. If something goes wrong, the user can sue you, and likely win. Your nolongerevil.com website also needs a EULA w/indemnification before allowing users to register.

The user is going to win after going out of their way to install an aftermarket binary blob on their deprecated thermostat? Seems like a stretch no?

If the user was told by a smarty-pants computer person to do it, they'll assume it works and is safe. On the other hand, if something goes really wrong, and the user can convince a judge that the mystery binary blob was involved? And the author never said anything about it possibly being unsafe? Then the court can decide that the user had a valid assumption that it would be safe, and the author won't be able to prove otherwise.

They put these disclaimers into licenses because people have already won these kind of cases.

Re: NoLongerEvil-Thermostat – Nest Generation 1 and 2 Firmware

#130

Post by gnuplustoejam »

mechanicalpulse wrote: post #123
gnuplustoejam wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Early generation Nest hardware was garbage, and was known for blowing FETs that failed closed, turning people's ACs into giant ice cubes. Putting it in the landfill would be doing yourself a favor. The ex-Apple culture in the early history of Nest was evident, which ostensibly spec'd FETs over mechanical relays for superficial reasons, because clicking sounds are ugly. The results were in the spirit of other Apple en…

Well that's certainly a take. Solid state relays using optoisolated MOSFETs have been around for fifty years. Mechanical relays are overkill for signal switching as in HVAC thermostats, IMHO, but you do you. Anecdotally, I have a first generation Nest and haven't had a problem. Maybe some of the earlier hardware had fewer protection against misuse (e.g., with non-24VAC systems or otherwise incorrect installation), bu…

Sounds like something Nest engineers would have said.

It's not "signal switching", you see.

HVAC equipment is as old and varied as you can imagine, and there is higher current than you think running through those terminals, powering all sorts of nasties, oil burner relays, damper motors, crude AC contactors causing voltage spikes etc. HVAC low voltage power is as dirty as can be.

No one took this into account, they were more concerned with making the thermostat pretty.

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