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We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

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Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#121

Post by bigcat12345678 »

wvenable wrote: post #33
gruez wrote: post #29

There was a comment that appeared for a few minutes before getting deleted, that vaguely lined up with what I wanted to say. It didn't reappear, so I'll just repost it: >real life also has social credit. were you an asshole to the bartender last week? that goes to your reputation at that bar. did you volunteer with a local non-profit? that goes to your reputation with that organization. even without an algorithm, peo…

You can always move to new town and start again. The problem with all these social credit systems is that they're designed to follow you wherever you go forever. There is also zero recourse if a mistake was made; at least you can try and smooth things over with a bartender.

> at least you can try and smooth things over with a bartender.

Hahah... You never offended a bartender for sure.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#122

Post by vel0city »

lovich wrote: post #40
wvenable wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can always move to new town and start again. The problem with all these social credit systems is that they're designed to follow you wherever you go forever. There is also zero recourse if a mistake was made; at least you can try and smooth things over with a bartender.

The following you everywhere is a major problem with these systems imo, mostly because it removed the equivalent of bankruptcy for your reputation. If you had to move across the country to leave your bad name behind, you used to be able to. And just like bankruptcy you’d start with nothing so it wasn’t exactly easy but it was at least an option. Now what recourse do people have?

The Music Man would have been a very different story in the post-internet world.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#123

Post by card_zero »

mlinhares wrote: post #118
card_zero wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, automation and information sharing prevents people slipping through the cracks, and that also prevents leniency, diversity, and reason. I was musing over something, though. We have creeping Orwellian things like face recognition and the policing of chat histories. But some of this is private, as in, not done by the state. Even when done by the state, it isn't in most places to prop up the regime and prevent dis…

Nah, there's no increase in disorder, crime in most developed countries is trending down, but we do have a bunch of people that have collected unimaginable wealth and are definitely afraid something will happen to them like the last couple times this has happened. They definitely don't want to repeat history and will use the coercion tools they have to clamp down on the peasants.

> afraid something will happen to them

Because of what, the decrease in crime?

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#124

Post by rendaw »

wvenable wrote: post #33
gruez wrote: post #29

There was a comment that appeared for a few minutes before getting deleted, that vaguely lined up with what I wanted to say. It didn't reappear, so I'll just repost it: >real life also has social credit. were you an asshole to the bartender last week? that goes to your reputation at that bar. did you volunteer with a local non-profit? that goes to your reputation with that organization. even without an algorithm, peo…

You can always move to new town and start again. The problem with all these social credit systems is that they're designed to follow you wherever you go forever. There is also zero recourse if a mistake was made; at least you can try and smooth things over with a bartender.

Isn't being able to move to a new town and start again also a kind of new thing though too? Cars, moving companies, open borders, globalism, English as a standard language, no serfdom, etc.

I mean, I think you could pick up and move but it was much harder, and how far you could reasonably move when you did move was limited pre-modern era. If you can't move that far, the likelihood of someone knowing you or word spreading is probably higher.

Although I remember seeing an article here on movement of serfs a while back, I think the conclusion was that they were more mobile than one might think.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#125

Post by [deleted] »

corimaith wrote: post #115
Bukhmanizer wrote: post #92

The issue is that American media/discourse paints a very distorted view of what life under authoritarian rule is like. The truth is in many countries, unless you’re some kind of minority, politically active, or in legal trouble, day-to-day life is mostly similar to life in the west. But people don’t want to hear that, because we want to feel better than them. Like we wouldn’t tolerate that kind of life. Of course the…

Well, day to day life is similar until it isn't, then you realize you have no options. Your life is nothing more than bubbles in the pond.

[deleted]

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#127

Post by al_borland »

gruez wrote: post #110
al_borland wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what karma scores on site like this or Reddit try to replicate.

Not really, because such sites really only use upvotes/downvotes as a ranking mechanism. There's theoretically a lifetime upvote/downvote counter (ie. your karma), but other than a number that shows up on your profile, it doesn't have any real impact. You don't really develop a "reputation", for instance your comments get more or less visibility based on your previous commenting history.

There were a couple occasions on Reddit where someone replied to me in seemingly bad faith. I looked and they had negative karma. As a result, I didn’t engage.

But I will agree that it’s far from perfect. It’s also similar to the bar example. A reputation is built one person at a time. It takes a while, with repeated bad behavior, to build a bad reputation with the entire staff or regulars.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#128

Post by otterley »

entropicdrifter wrote: post #103
otterley wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course people should learn from their mistakes and constantly improve. But if you respond like an asshole to a comment, it means you haven't learned the lessons you should have. IOW, the commenter is proving my point.

>But if you respond like an asshole to a comment, it means you haven't learned the lessons you should have. IOW, the commenter is proving my point. The irony here is palpable . Buy a mirror.

I appreciate the feedback.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#129

Post by jollyllama »

gruez wrote: post #29

There was a comment that appeared for a few minutes before getting deleted, that vaguely lined up with what I wanted to say. It didn't reappear, so I'll just repost it: >real life also has social credit. were you an asshole to the bartender last week? that goes to your reputation at that bar. did you volunteer with a local non-profit? that goes to your reputation with that organization. even without an algorithm, peo…

Sure, but without a credit score, the only way people can be prejudiced against you is through your appearance or through gossip. A credit score carries with it a weight that approximates official statements - news coverage, legal judgements - that others are much less likely to take with a grain of salt, as they would a casual hearsay accusation.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#130

Post by Animats »

darthoctopus wrote: post #46
seydor wrote: post #23

No there is a major difference when social credit is centralized to a single authority , and people cannot use the law to protect from that authority. otherwise, people have always judged each other with any way they could

Did you even read the article? Here is the situation in China: > Here's what's actually happening. As of 2024, there's still no nationwide social credit score in China. Most private scoring systems have been shut down, and local government pilots have largely ended. It’s mainly a fragmented collection of regulatory compliance tools, mostly focused on financial behavior and business oversight. While well over 33 milli…

Overview from 2022. One city really did set up a full social credit system, but that was a pilot project and didn't work out.[1] There are some private "social credit" systems, like the one from Ant, but that's more like a rewards program - buy stuff, get points.

China has had a lot of official social control for centuries, but it was local and managed by local cops.[2] As the population became more mobile, that wasn't enough. But a single national system never emerged.

There was a work record history, the Dang'an, created by the Party but to some extent pre-dating communism. This, again, was handled locally, by Party officials. This system didn't cope well with employee mobility. But it didn't get built into a comprehensive national system, either.

China is authoritarian, but most of the mechanisms of coercion are local. Local political bullies are a constant low-level problem.

Kind of like rural Alabama.

[1] https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/11/22/1063605/china-an...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hukou

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dang%27an

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