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Copilot broke audit logs, but Microsoft won't tell customers

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Re: Copilot broke audit logs, but Microsoft won't tell customers

#121

Post by bratbag »

matt3210 wrote: post #89
TheRoque wrote: post #49

In my opinion, using AI tools for programming at the moment, unless in a sandboxed environment and on a toy project, is just ludicrous. The amount of shady things going on in this domain (AI trained on stolen content, no proper attribution, not proper way to audit what's going out to third party servers etc.) should be a huge red flag for any professional developer.

Use AI to audit what’s produced by AI. Problem solved! /sarcasm

If this reduces error rates to below those of a human, then that's an acceptable approach.

Unless you think humans code reviewing humans is pointless because errors sometimes still slip through?

Re: Copilot broke audit logs, but Microsoft won't tell customers

#122

Post by pmxi »

AdieuToLogic wrote: post #65
TheRoque wrote: post #49

In my opinion, using AI tools for programming at the moment, unless in a sandboxed environment and on a toy project, is just ludicrous. The amount of shady things going on in this domain (AI trained on stolen content, no proper attribution, not proper way to audit what's going out to third party servers etc.) should be a huge red flag for any professional developer.

> In my opinion, using AI tools for programming at the moment, unless in a sandboxed environment and on a toy project, is just ludicrous. Well put. The fundamental flaw is in trying to employ nondeterministic content generation based on statistical relevance defined by an unknown training data set, which is what commercial LLM offerings are, in an effort to repeatably produce content satisfying a strict mathematical…

Humans are far less deterministic than LLMs, yet presumably are acceptable for writing program source code?

Re: Copilot broke audit logs, but Microsoft won't tell customers

#123

Post by IlikeKitties »

TheRoque wrote: post #49

In my opinion, using AI tools for programming at the moment, unless in a sandboxed environment and on a toy project, is just ludicrous. The amount of shady things going on in this domain (AI trained on stolen content, no proper attribution, not proper way to audit what's going out to third party servers etc.) should be a huge red flag for any professional developer.

And any company that uses it will undercut you on price until you too stop worrying and start using the AI slop machine.

Re: Copilot broke audit logs, but Microsoft won't tell customers

#124

Post by bigbuppo »

thenaturalist wrote: post #6

Hardly have I ever seen corporate incentives so aligned to overhype the capabilities of a technology while it being so raw and unpolished as this one. The bubble bursting will be epic.

At some point one of the big tech companies is going to be the next Sears.

Re: Copilot broke audit logs, but Microsoft won't tell customers

#125

Post by VitalKoshalew »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #43
jjkaczor wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... basically like when Delve was first introduced and was improperly security trimming things it was suggesting and search results. ... Or ... a very long-time ago, when SharePoint search would display results and synopsis's for search terms where a user couldn't open the document, but could see that it existed and could get a matching paragraph or two... Best example I would tell people of the problem was users s…

I would say "insecure by default". I talked to some Microsoft folks around the Windows Server 2025 launch, where they claimed they would be breaking more compatibility in the name of their Secure Future Initiative. But Server 2025 will load malicious ads on the Edge start screen[1] if you need to access a web interface of an internal thing from your domain controller, and they gleefully announced including winget, a…

Servers don't have Desktop GUI, so there is no way you can run a browser on a real server installation. That's done specifically to limit the attack surface. This applies to almost all Windows Server roles except very few such as ADFS which Microsoft is struggling to migrate for decades. Definitely to the root of all security - AD DC.

If you've elected to create a Frankenstein of a domain controller and a desktop/gaming PC and are using it to browse any websites, all consequences are entirely on you.

Re: Copilot broke audit logs, but Microsoft won't tell customers

#126

Post by moi2388 »

galaxyLogic wrote: post #116
MobiusHorizons wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the question I keep asking leaders (I literally asked a VP this question once in an all hands). How do we approach the risk associated mistakes made by AI?(process, legal, security, insurance etc) We have process and legal agreements in place to deal with humans that work for a business making mistakes. We need analogs for AI if we want to use it in similar ways.

My question is if I get some code from AI, save it to a file, then modify it or add some functions to it, can I still claim the copyright for it at the top of the file? Do I need to give the AI any credit? I'm asking because I read somewhere that "AI produced output cannot be copyrighted". But what if I modify that output myself? I am then a co-creator, right, and I think I should have a right to some copyright prote…

You do.

Re: Copilot broke audit logs, but Microsoft won't tell customers

#127

Post by winternewt »

TheRoque wrote: post #49

In my opinion, using AI tools for programming at the moment, unless in a sandboxed environment and on a toy project, is just ludicrous. The amount of shady things going on in this domain (AI trained on stolen content, no proper attribution, not proper way to audit what's going out to third party servers etc.) should be a huge red flag for any professional developer.

> The amount of shady things going on in this domain (AI trained on stolen content, no proper attribution, not proper way to audit what's going out to third party servers etc.) should be a huge red flag for any professional developer.

If you already have your entire information infrastructure in Office 365 (including all email, Excel sheets with material non-public information etc) I think this point is moot. Why would MS abuse information only from Copilot and not the rest of its products when the legal agreements permit them to do neither?

Re: Copilot broke audit logs, but Microsoft won't tell customers

#128

Post by anticodon »

Finbel wrote: post #120
AdieuToLogic wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my opinion, using AI tools for programming at the moment, unless in a sandboxed environment and on a toy project, is just ludicrous. Well put. The fundamental flaw is in trying to employ nondeterministic content generation based on statistical relevance defined by an unknown training data set, which is what commercial LLM offerings are, in an effort to repeatably produce content satisfying a strict mathematical…

Have you not used commercial LLMs to generate program source code? You describe it as if it's an almost unsolvable problem which might have been reasonable 2 years ago but I just used gpt-5 to generate a complete NextJS application for flashcards. I've literally been employing nondeterministic content generation based on statistical relevance defined by an unknown training data, to repeatably produce content satisfyi…

I'm pretty sure there're thousands of blog posts and books describing creation of a complete flashcards application in all popular programming languages and on all popular frameworks.

Re: Copilot broke audit logs, but Microsoft won't tell customers

#129

Post by ygritte »

mlyle wrote: post #113
ygritte wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm getting so tired of this dumb kind of non-argument. You can't defend LLMs on their own merits, so you try to make them look smarter by throwing shade on humans. That's a non sequitur and whataboutism.

Nah-- I feel like I have my eyes pretty wide open about the shortcomings of LLMs (but still find them useful often). But any argument seeking to dunk on LLMs needs to not also apply equally to the alternative (humans).

And, wouldn't you know it, it actually does not also apply equally to the alternative (humans).
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