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Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

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Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#121

Post by dathinab »

Shank wrote: post #22

The UK is quickly deploying surveillance state technology that people once decried China for. Whether or not this is ethical or useful, I wish the hypocrisy would be acknowledged. The OSA, the Apple encryption demands, LFR, …, it’s clearly a trend. Has society really become this dangerous that we must deploy these things?

> The UK is quickly deploying surveillance state technology that people once decried China for.

they always had been or at least tried, for decades by now, the only thing which had been holding them back was the EU frequently being like "no wtf UK, that is against human rights, EU law, etc."

> Has society really become this dangerous that we must deploy these things?

no, and it also has a long track record of not only marginally improving your crime statistics. And especially stuff like facial recognition vans are most times not used to protect citizens but to create lists for who attended demos and similar. Which is most useful for suppressing/harassing your citizens instead of protecting them.

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#122

Post by codedokode »

andrepd wrote: post #80
fennecfoxy wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose it depends on what it's used for. We could trust the government to be good, but governments are made from people, elected by people. And people are often shitbags to each other. For all the CCTV in London I've been mugged twice and nothing was captured on CCTV nor were the police all that interested in doing anything about it. As an outsider living here I think the UK has huge social problems that are neglect…

CCTV can absolutely be made to be effective and protect citizen's privacy at the same time. A legal requirement to store only encrypted data, which can only be decrypted via a court warrant (so a similar standard to searching your home or tapping your phones, not the blanket panopticon they wish to create), plus enforcement and heavy fines + prison time for anyone caught storing unencrypted data. You need political w…

If you trust that the law works then the data is protected by it and there is no need for encryption. But it seems that you don't trust. Aren't you planning something illegal by chance?

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#124

Post by aaronbaugher »

codedokode wrote: post #119
runsWphotons wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I commented about this on another thread, and probably most around here disagree with my general point there, but this fact amazes me. We have gotten all this tech creating a surveillance state but then it isn't even used to give better policing. You will just get mugged on camera by someone with ten prior charges and then be ignored by police.

The surveillance is there not to catch small thieves, but those who are against the government, against wars etc. A small thief doesn't threaten the regime in any way so he can be dealt with after more dangerous people are dealt with.

In fact, the petty criminal may benefit the regime, if his crimes damage those the regime sees as a greater threat to itself and its goals.

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#125

Post by [deleted] »

Shank wrote: post #22

The UK is quickly deploying surveillance state technology that people once decried China for. Whether or not this is ethical or useful, I wish the hypocrisy would be acknowledged. The OSA, the Apple encryption demands, LFR, …, it’s clearly a trend. Has society really become this dangerous that we must deploy these things?

[deleted]

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#126

Post by grepnork »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #108
grepnork wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All positives are verified by humans first before action is taken, all the system does is flag positives to an operator. Once verified, then the action movie starts. Match quality below 0.64 is automatically discarded >0.7 is considered reliable enough for an enquiry to be made. So far ~1,035 arrests since last year resulting in 773 charges or cautions, which is pretty good when you consider that a 'trained' police o…

Thanks, very informative. > " In the UK you don't have to provide ID when asked " Well if you are suspected of a crime they can arrest you if you refuse to identify yourself. I 'suspect' that being flagged by this system counts as such if you match someone who is wanted or similar.

You can't make an arrest on the basis of refusal to verify identity, unless a specific law is in play, or the Police officer has proof you are lying.

If the police have probable cause to suspect you've committed an actual crime, then you have to ID yourself, you are entitled to know what crime you are suspected of. Yes, facial recognition does count, but it has to be a high confidence match >0.7, verified by a police officer personally, after the match is made, and verified again on arrest.

If you are suspected of Anti-Social Behaviour then you have to ID (Section 50 of the Police Reform Act)

If you are arrested, then you have to provide your name and address (Police and Criminal Evidence Act 2000).

If you are driving, you have to ID (Section 164 of the Road Traffic Act).

Providing false information or documents is a separate criminal offence.

Essentially, police can't just rock up, demand ID, and ask questions without a compelling reason.

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#127

Post by maxwell »

andrepd wrote: post #81
southernplaces7 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He just had no conception of all the fun technologies that would later come along in a digitized, microprocessor-rich world of the future. Reading 1984 today, you want to laught at the simplistic and almost benign weakness of telescreens for surveillance. Were Orwell to have been deeply informed about the surviellance mechanisms of the future, he'd likely be both surprised into horror at their innovative intrusions,…

The last part wits the nail on the head. Orwell envisioned a future where everyone was forced to have a telescreen watching them at all times. He never for a second dreamed of a future where people would buy a telescreen for the most trifling convenience of going "alexa, is it going to rain today".

Huxley and Bradbury did.

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#130

Post by maxwell »

betaby wrote: post #100
righthand wrote: post #69

I would honestly start looking to flee the UK.

And go where? Also how to do that legally? You just can't show up to say Moldova and start living there.

There seems to only be a single free country left sadly.
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