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Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

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Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#101

Post by potato3732842 »

righthand wrote: post #66
Shank wrote: post #22

The UK is quickly deploying surveillance state technology that people once decried China for. Whether or not this is ethical or useful, I wish the hypocrisy would be acknowledged. The OSA, the Apple encryption demands, LFR, …, it’s clearly a trend. Has society really become this dangerous that we must deploy these things?

No the world is actually much much safer especially in these first world countries. However our society is now flooded with Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt campaigns that foreigners, terrorists, criminals, are out to get you. This creates the dellusion that all these security companies are here to help and protect us. Really it's just politicians handing out tax money to private corporations (cronyism) for no improvement to…

The fact that these people and corporations are successful as they are is a condemnation of a subset of the people in our society and the public policy that has been pushed at their behest.

In the same way that moralizing karens create drug cartels rich off trafficking scared morons unable to think a few steps ahead create Peter Theils rich off building 1984.

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#102

Post by coldtea »

josefritzishere wrote: post #24
philipallstar wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not immigrants. Illegal immigrants.

Colonial powers are not entitled to that argument, it's hypocritical.

Did the people suffering the consequences of illegal immigration today performed that colonialism?

Not even their ancestors at colonial times benefitted much from it: the industrial working class of Britain was in dire position despite Britain being a colonial Empire. That money and power went to the ruling classes and their middle class bootlickers.

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#103

Post by grepnork »

johnisgood wrote: post #90

What is the point if there are people on many streets with CCTVs doing drugs openly. I saw a cop simply walk by someone overdosing. Nothing will happen. Again, what is the point exactly? Can anyone tell me? (Again, what is the point of the down-vote? I am asking for people's thought and opinions in the hope of a fruitful conversation).

Overdosing is not a crime, it's not even the job of the Police to help, and possession of drugs is being ignored by most forces because an arrest takes two officers off frontline services for 4 hours, when it will most likely result in a caution.

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#104

Post by grepnork »

betaby wrote: post #97
johnisgood wrote: post #90

What is the point if there are people on many streets with CCTVs doing drugs openly. I saw a cop simply walk by someone overdosing. Nothing will happen. Again, what is the point exactly? Can anyone tell me? (Again, what is the point of the down-vote? I am asking for people's thought and opinions in the hope of a fruitful conversation).

> Again, what is the point exactly? Can anyone tell me? To haras and punish people disagreeing with the ruling class?

Out of curiosity exactly who is this ruling class?

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#105

Post by potato3732842 »

ryandrake wrote: post #99
runsWphotons wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I commented about this on another thread, and probably most around here disagree with my general point there, but this fact amazes me. We have gotten all this tech creating a surveillance state but then it isn't even used to give better policing. You will just get mugged on camera by someone with ten prior charges and then be ignored by police.

All the recent policy, technical leaps, and innovation around policing seem to be focused on cracking down on protesting and speech, and not really on what people would consider "fighting crime". You could get mugged on the street corner in broad daylight (or worse) and the police won't even answer your phone call, but the minute you show up on that street corner with 10 friends carrying signs and shouting, 20 office…

The purpose of the system (the police in this casse) is what it does.

Always been that way, always will be. It's just a little harder to bury your head in the sand than it used to be.

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#106

Post by johnisgood »

grepnork wrote: post #103
johnisgood wrote: post #90

What is the point if there are people on many streets with CCTVs doing drugs openly. I saw a cop simply walk by someone overdosing. Nothing will happen. Again, what is the point exactly? Can anyone tell me? (Again, what is the point of the down-vote? I am asking for people's thought and opinions in the hope of a fruitful conversation).

Overdosing is not a crime, it's not even the job of the Police to help, and possession of drugs is being ignored by most forces because an arrest takes two officers off frontline services for 4 hours, when it will most likely result in a caution.

Here, if the cop sees someone overdosing, they immediately call the ambulance, not walk by and do nothing.

Also if someone is overdosing, they are probably possessing.

People should do it at home or somewhere else, not on the streets. I don't care if someone is consuming inside their home.

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#107

Post by varispeed »

Shank wrote: post #22

The UK is quickly deploying surveillance state technology that people once decried China for. Whether or not this is ethical or useful, I wish the hypocrisy would be acknowledged. The OSA, the Apple encryption demands, LFR, …, it’s clearly a trend. Has society really become this dangerous that we must deploy these things?

It's a sign that Labour and Conservatives are worried they are about to lose power. They "fumbled" the economy by selling everything out to the highest bidder, created captive labour market cementing the class divide - free market only for big corporations. Now they have to protect it and themselves. They need to know what people are talking about.

Paranoia gets bigger every year. They are addicted to money and power.

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#108

Post by mytailorisrich »

grepnork wrote: post #91
mytailorisrich wrote: post #51

In itself this is a storm in a teacup. The important question, only important question IMHO, is how they handle positives. Do they go all guns blazing and arrest the person on the spot? Or do they use a restrained approach and first nicely ask the person if they have any ID, etc? That's the important bit.

All positives are verified by humans first before action is taken, all the system does is flag positives to an operator. Once verified, then the action movie starts. Match quality below 0.64 is automatically discarded >0.7 is considered reliable enough for an enquiry to be made. So far ~1,035 arrests since last year resulting in 773 charges or cautions, which is pretty good when you consider that a 'trained' police o…

Thanks, very informative.

> "In the UK you don't have to provide ID when asked"

Well if you are suspected of a crime they can arrest you if you refuse to identify yourself. I 'suspect' that being flagged by this system counts as such if you match someone who is wanted or similar.

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#109

Post by betaby »

grepnork wrote: post #104
betaby wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Again, what is the point exactly? Can anyone tell me? To haras and punish people disagreeing with the ruling class?

Out of curiosity exactly who is this ruling class?

Let's say those people for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partygate

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#110

Post by varispeed »

andrepd wrote: post #80
fennecfoxy wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose it depends on what it's used for. We could trust the government to be good, but governments are made from people, elected by people. And people are often shitbags to each other. For all the CCTV in London I've been mugged twice and nothing was captured on CCTV nor were the police all that interested in doing anything about it. As an outsider living here I think the UK has huge social problems that are neglect…

CCTV can absolutely be made to be effective and protect citizen's privacy at the same time. A legal requirement to store only encrypted data, which can only be decrypted via a court warrant (so a similar standard to searching your home or tapping your phones, not the blanket panopticon they wish to create), plus enforcement and heavy fines + prison time for anyone caught storing unencrypted data. You need political w…

This is the kind of techno-utopian fantasy that keeps authoritarianism looking respectable. “Just encrypt it and only decrypt with a warrant” sounds lovely on paper, but in practice you’ve still built the infrastructure for a 24/7 panopticon - you’ve just wrapped it in a legal fig leaf.

Governments break their own rules all the time, warrants get rubber-stamped, and “heavy fines + prison time” magically evaporate when the offenders are the state or its contractors. The technology isn’t the hard part - it’s the fact you can’t meaningfully enforce limits on a system whose entire purpose is to watch everyone, all the time. You don’t make mass surveillance safe by adding a padlock. You stop it by not building it.

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