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Good riddance, PayPal

elliotjaystocks.com

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Re: Good riddance, PayPal

#121

Post by JoshTriplett »

Auguste wrote: post #29
Irfaan wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If PayPal is so very terrible (and I believe it), Is there a reason Amazon Payments or Google Wallet haven't overtaken PayPal in this market? If neither Amazon nor Google's brand recognition hasn't convinced folks (buyers or sellers) to start pushing it instead of PayPal for Internet purchases, I can only hope it's because their solutions are equally terrible - otherwise, I have a hard time seeing how a new player wi…

>Is there a reason Amazon Payments or Google Wallet haven't overtaken PayPal in this market? As a buyer (and not a merchant), I love Paypal because I can have it debit directly from by bank account instead of handing over my credit card information. I hate credit cards, and this combined with Paypal's two-factor authentication gives me some good peace of mind. I haven't seen any other services that provide direct-deb…

> As a buyer (and not a merchant), I love Paypal because I can have it debit directly from by bank account instead of handing over my credit card information.

I don't understand this at all. I pay through PayPal via a credit card when a merchant accepts no other form of payment, and if they ever gave me trouble, I trust my credit card provider enough that I don't have to trust PayPal. I wouldn't let PayPal near my bank account, because bank accounts don't have the same level of protection for illegitimate transfers, and PayPal will happily ACH away however much they feel entitled to.

Re: Good riddance, PayPal

#122

Post by asg »

michaelt wrote: post #44
tylerrooney wrote: post #27

Perhaps someone who runs their own company can answer this question for me: If you don't use PayPal, how do you receive payment from customers who don't have credit cards? Are your customers exclusively in North America? Or do you just write those customers off (which is a valid option if PayPal integration would be that painful)? Adding PayPal as a payment option has been an enormous pain for us but a non-consequent…

If you don't use PayPal, how do you receive payment from customers who don't have credit cards? If a customer doesn't have a credit card or a debit card that your payment gateway accepts, you deal with them the same way you deal with customers who don't have computers.

In the western world, people without credit or debit cards are such a small portion of the population that this policy of ignoring such users is worthwhile. In developing countries however, there are many services that aim to bridge this gap. I dont know how good they are, or how successful they will be, but people are certainly trying to access this market.

Examples (no affiliations): http://gharpay.in/ - Home cash pickup; https://www.itzcash.com/ - Prepaid Cash card; Mobile Money services in Africa such as M-Pesa - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Pesa

Re: Good riddance, PayPal

#123

Post by mratzloff »

I don't think this guy realizes the extent of how correct he is. PayPal is not a bank. They are basically a giant merchant account. Wells Fargo backs them, even while they compete with them (clearXchange.com).

So PayPal doesn't have to operate by the same rules. When you use PayPal, you are putting money into PayPal's bank account and hoping they act in your best interests.

A reasonable person (I feel) would conclude PayPal is a de facto merchant acquiring bank, especially given the volume, and therefore should be required to operate under those laws.

Of course, PayPal knows the real money is in becoming a card scheme, so it's only a matter of time before we see that (not co-branded with MasterCard). At least they'd have to operate under existing card scheme laws, but I sure as heck wouldn't use one.

Re: Good riddance, PayPal

#124

Post by mratzloff »

michaelt wrote: post #44
tylerrooney wrote: post #27

Perhaps someone who runs their own company can answer this question for me: If you don't use PayPal, how do you receive payment from customers who don't have credit cards? Are your customers exclusively in North America? Or do you just write those customers off (which is a valid option if PayPal integration would be that painful)? Adding PayPal as a payment option has been an enormous pain for us but a non-consequent…

If you don't use PayPal, how do you receive payment from customers who don't have credit cards? If a customer doesn't have a credit card or a debit card that your payment gateway accepts, you deal with them the same way you deal with customers who don't have computers.

Cell phone. You see it a lot in Africa, where few people have credit cards but many have cheap cell phones.

Re: Good riddance, PayPal

#125

Post by pc86 »

Osiris wrote: post #114
brazzy wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you name some of those competitors destroyed by fraud? I'd be interested to learn more about those cases.

I've been using PayPal plus another payment provider to provide other payment options and I can say that I get almost no chargebacks with PayPal. I think I've had one in the past year. The other company, I get several chargebacks a month. Their fraud protections just aren't nearly as good as PayPal. In fact, I often spot fraudulent charges very quickly and have to email my third part processor to refund or cancel the…

Is Stripe that other provider? I've been contemplating switching but I agree with your sentiment that PayPal's fraud detection is the best available right now.

I'd definitely be interested in seeing a write-up about integrating Stripe with third-party fraud detection systems.

Re: Good riddance, PayPal

#126

Post by Shenglong »

From my experience and that of others who’ve suffered the same, it’s clear that PayPal are interested in buyers, not sellers. Why else would they provide customers with refunds at the drop of a hat, but withhold money amounting to thousands — literally thousands and thousands and thousands — from buyers without any valid reason, when not even your bank is legally allowed do that?

The best part about them giving buyers refunds is that if you, as a seller, want to dispute their chargeback, you have to pay Paypal an administrative fee ^_^

Re: Good riddance, PayPal

#127

Post by rprasad »

scottshea wrote: post #105
reitzensteinm wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, yes. The merchant is, if I understand the post correctly, taking orders, using the money to print a run, then shipping them. The risk is caused by the merchant's business model. It may not be high, but it certainly exists. Either the merchant, PayPal or consumers themselves must pay for it. Who would you pick?

And yet you want him to turn to a bank to help secure Paypal's position so that would indicate that the costs of the risk are not wrapped into Paypal's processes (i.e. the transactions between the two parties). For Credit Risk banks and other financial institutions use interest rates. For Operational Risk they use fees. The freezing of accounts comes only when the activity of the merchant approaches a threshold not c…

Who would have thought that a merchant should have to cover the risk entailed by its choice of business model?

Re: Good riddance, PayPal

#128

Post by onli »

mratzloff wrote: post #123

I don't think this guy realizes the extent of how correct he is. PayPal is not a bank. They are basically a giant merchant account. Wells Fargo backs them, even while they compete with them (clearXchange.com). So PayPal doesn't have to operate by the same rules. When you use PayPal, you are putting money into PayPal's bank account and hoping they act in your best interests. A reasonable person (I feel) would conclude…

That is not true in the UK, where the OP is operating in. Paypal is a bank here and subject to regulations.

Re: Good riddance, PayPal

#129

Post by onli »

raverbashing wrote: post #30
adrinavarro wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are debit cards out there! In fact, everyone I know has at least one debit card (either MasterCard or VISA), aside from the number of people who have an AMEX/VISA (credit type). And debit cards work everywhere. I've used my VISA Electron (debit) pretty much everywhere in the developed world, both online and travelling abroad.

Yes, because there are no security issues in giving out a debt card number that is directly linked to your bank account.

As you can always get the money back with a simple order, it is a very minor issue.

Re: Good riddance, PayPal

#130

Post by DanBC »

tylerrooney wrote: post #27

Perhaps someone who runs their own company can answer this question for me: If you don't use PayPal, how do you receive payment from customers who don't have credit cards? Are your customers exclusively in North America? Or do you just write those customers off (which is a valid option if PayPal integration would be that painful)? Adding PayPal as a payment option has been an enormous pain for us but a non-consequent…

Depends on the business. Some people might buy gift tokens (with cash, using a friend who does have a valid payment method). This is useful on, for example, Amazon.

In the UK we have "prepaid credit cards"[1] which could be useful for some people who are otherwise unable to get credit.

[1] confusing name, because they never give you credit, and I don't think they have the same protections as normal credit cards.

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