Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

“No tax on tips” is an industry plant

newyorker.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 618 posts

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#121

Post by freehorse »

frollogaston wrote: post #89
ghiculescu wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an Australian who lived in America for 5 years - it’s bonkers to claim the service is better (or even as good) in Aus. It’s clearly more attentive in the states, anyone who says otherwise has an agenda. Sometimes you don’t want good service - as in, you don’t want a server to talk to you. That’s a lot easier to find here.

Yeah, this exactly matches my experience visiting Sydney from the US, it was great. I'm not antisocial, in fact I enjoy talking to strangers, but it feels very wrong to pay them for it.

They are still paid to be polite and friendly, just not directly from you. It can also be a selection process because the ppl who do not smile enough have been fired or not taken for the job in the first place. Having a boss in these industries “encouraging“ employees to smile more is not unheard of. It makes sense that it feels better than paying directly to produce this outcome, but in a last analysis it is not very different.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#122

Post by oulipo »

oellegaard wrote: post #71

It’s crazy that this still happens in the US. Tipping is a thing of the past. Pay for your meal and have the restaurant pay their people for their work. End of story.

That's why I never tip. Otherwise you're giving the perfect excuse to restaurant owners to lower wages.

- have a liveable minimum wage - force restaurant owners to pay at least that

period

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#123

Post by closewith »

CalRobert wrote: post #112
bapak wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crazier part is that it's spreading to more industries and more countries thanks to Americans thinking they should tip everyone everywhere. Thanks.

Living in Ireland from 2013-2023 I saw tipping get _much_ more common, sadly.

[flagged]

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#124

Post by closewith »

ecb_penguin wrote: post #84
bapak wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crazier part is that it's spreading to more industries and more countries thanks to Americans thinking they should tip everyone everywhere. Thanks.

Yep. It's wonderful throwing a few extra bucks to some euro waiter and watching them treat you better than everyone else.

I think most of the time this happens, you just don't realise the wait staff is patronising you. You certainly aren't buying better service.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#125

Post by happymellon »

maxbond wrote: post #93
ecb_penguin wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. It's wonderful throwing a few extra bucks to some euro waiter and watching them treat you better than everyone else.

I'm curious whether you have ever worked in the service industry?

I have, in the UK. Probably 95% of customers didn't tip. I didn't have any problems with this.

Why?

I was nice to people because that was my job, but when I've travelled to the US I have definitely seen entitled customers treat staff like shit and claiming it's their right because they were tipping.

Tipping as standard should go out the window, it just drives customers to be assholes.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#126

Post by alkonaut »

JasonBorne wrote: post #91
efitz wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s very little empirical evidence correlating tipping with better service.

There is definitely a huge difference in countries where they tip and countries where they don't tip.

There’s tipping everywhere (more or less, there are some exceptions). But there’s just one country that I know of where 15% is ”no tip” because it’s the expected baseline, and 25% is a small tip because it’s 5-10% over the expected minimum so the actual ”tip” part of a 25% tip is actually less.

I tip 0-10% where I live. Just like most Americans tip 15-25% but the first 15 are just eaten by expectation. There is zero difference except that 1) my menu shows actual prices 2) wait staff have a living wage regardless of tips or how busy the restaurant was that day.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#127

Post by closewith »

ecb_penguin wrote: post #85
frollogaston wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they're definitely more attentive for the tip, I just don't like it. If they're going to be extra nice, I don't want it to be for money. Felt nice going to other countries like Australia where the customer isn't always right but they still do their jobs.

Bud, literally nobody gives a shit about waiting on you. They are literally only doing it for the money. People in Australia are still doing it for the money, even if you don't realize it.

People who are not under constant existential stress are generally friendly and nice to other people, even when there's no direct financial benefit.

If you need to pay people to be pleasant to you, that's a moment for introspection.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#128

Post by alkonaut »

ecb_penguin wrote: post #81
oellegaard wrote: post #71

It’s crazy that this still happens in the US. Tipping is a thing of the past. Pay for your meal and have the restaurant pay their people for their work. End of story.

> Pay for your meal Not sure you know what tipping is, but it's not paying for the meal. It's paying for the service. 1. I like being able to pay for better service 2. Despite what people like to think, everywhere in the world has appreciated tips. I've never had a waiter refuse extra money. Literally dozens of countries, you get better service if you tip.

The cost of a ”meal” in a restaurant is: rent, wages (for chefs, managers, wait staff, etc) ingredients, profit margin, taxes and likely a dozen other things.

Taking one of these items out of the cost and trying to charge it separately is a strange practice.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#129

Post by alkonaut »

augment_me wrote: post #110

I can kind of see the average traditional service work position to shift into a Uber-esque model where you are a essentially a gig contractor. The worker takes the full risk for slow days, and the business owner does not have to pay you a salary, as everything comes from the customer.

That’s exactly what US waiter employment is. And it needs to die.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#130

Post by closewith »

ghiculescu wrote: post #87
ecb_penguin wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bud, literally nobody gives a shit about waiting on you. They are literally only doing it for the money. People in Australia are still doing it for the money, even if you don't realize it.

As an Australian who lived in America for 5 years - it’s bonkers to claim the service is better (or even as good) in Aus. It’s clearly more attentive in the states, anyone who says otherwise has an agenda. Sometimes you don’t want good service - as in, you don’t want a server to talk to you. That’s a lot easier to find here.

Or they may have different values to you. I find American style surveillance services and false smiles pushing upsells to be the worst restaurant experience globally. I'd take any abrupt waiter over that.
Post reply on HN