Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

GIMP 3.0 is on the way

lwn.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 204 posts

Re: GIMP 3.0 is on the way

#121

Post by flufluflufluffy »

idoubtit wrote: post #97
joaomacp wrote: post #22

I use Gimp from time to time, and often get frustrated with its... unique UI. It's nice to see they're hearing feedback and working on it :D A tip for others that feel the same: if you've used Photoshop before and are used to its UI, try the free Photopea website. It's a Photoshop "clone" that works really well in web (I believe it's a solo dev doing it too). It's replaced Gimp for me lately.

Many years ago, I lost my work because of this "unique UI" and pledge never to use Gimp again, unless its behavior changed. When you open a non-Gimp file, for instance a PNG, and you want to update the source file, you need to "export" to PNG. And if you close the tab, Gimp warns you that your work isn't saved, because it hasn't been saved in its native xcf format. There is no way to know if the work has been saved t…

This is standard behavior in pretty much any kind of art/content creation app. You have a project file which can be saved and reopened in the app, saving the state of the layers/effects/etc to be edited later, and can “export” a final render to a specific format for your medium. Image/video editing, digital audio workstations, 3D-modeling programs, they all behave like this, for good reason since it usually takes a long time to export to a specific format, and when you do, you lose the ability to change anything.

Think of it like source code, and each exportable file type is like a compilation target.

Re: GIMP 3.0 is on the way

#123

Post by mardifoufs »

em-bee wrote: post #96
cxr wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Websites[...] can sneakily copy the files you are working with You have made one of the most baffling logical errors that commonly crop up when people criticize browser-based apps. Browser-based apps execute in a sandbox. They are more constrained in what they can do in comparison to a traditional program running on your machine. Any nefarious thing a browser-based app can do, a local program can do, too, and not j…

i can remove network access capabilities from a desktop app after it is installed. i can't easily do that with an app running in a browser. likewise monitoring and detecting network access per application is easy. tracking down which browser tab is making which network connection is a lot harder.

Go to the network tab of your browser's dev tools. It's literally easier than with a desktop app.

Re: GIMP 3.0 is on the way

#124

Post by sirwhinesalot »

kombine wrote: post #110
sirwhinesalot wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GTK4 removed a bunch of APIs for stupid reasons and GIMPs move to 3 started before 4 even existed. Had 4 at least tried to maintain some degree of compatibility then switching from 3 to 4 near the end would have been feasible. But that's not the case. If you aren't Gnome, GTK is not for you.

Might as well port the next version of Gimp to Qt - they seem to be much more reasonable as API providers.

Qt also introduces some messy changes between major versions but they tend to be a lot more reasonable than what GTK does. Since Qt4 at least there's usually some attempt at providing alternatives for each deprecated function or class (the alternatives are shown in the error messages) and sometimes full-on compatibility layers for missing features are provided like with Qt5Compat.

Not sure Gimp devs would be willing to switch to C++ for Qt though.

Re: GIMP 3.0 is on the way

#125

Post by extraduder_ire »

lottin wrote: post #79

> this release has transitioned to using GTK's header bar component, typically used to combine an application's toolbar and title bar into one unit This is a step backward. Access to the window manager menu becomes difficult as a result.

Do you mean the menu you get from holding super and right clicking on the window?

I don't think I ever access that menu from the titlebar. But that's mostly because the unity DE is where I built most of my muscle memory.

Re: GIMP 3.0 is on the way

#126

Post by James_K »

cmyk_student wrote: post #119
James_K wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that this evangelism is useful, but it's also annoying. I'm also doing things with my life and I don't have the time to fix GIMP. My purpose in writing these comments is not to volunteer my time or money to the GIMP project, but to suggest they improve it by focusing on the many basic UI issues it has, which for some reason they haven't done in the last 20 years. Instead of laying the ground work for non-destru…

The challenge is that there's only so many volunteers contributing to GIMP, and lots of people with requests. The loudest/most frequent ones tend to be addressed first (as volunteers are able). For instance, I worked on non-destructive editing because so many people said it was an essential missing feature that also needed to be there 20 years ago. Now that it's implemented, I've seen a lot of happy people who apprec…

The idea that you can never make a good piece of software is backwards and wrong. There should come a point where your software has the essential features and reasonable UX. Producing software which does what the user wants without being actively hostile to them is the bare minimum. It doesn't take 20 years, it's not an endless process. If you spend 20 years doing it, you are managing your time badly. GIMP is managing their time badly. The "loudest/most frequent" requests is not a good metric to use because most of those issues are filed by software developers and not users.

Re: GIMP 3.0 is on the way

#127

Post by glonq »

asddubs wrote: post #42
soulofmischief wrote: post #15

I started using GIMP around 2003 as a small child, and I remember being hyped for 3.0 and non-destructive editing even back then. I'm in my thirties now. Slow and steady wins the race. Congrats to the GIMP team, can't imagine the catharsis they will experience when 3.0 officially drops.

not sure if i would call taking 20 years for a release "steady"

Congrats to the GIMP team for being more spry than the HURD team ;)

Re: GIMP 3.0 is on the way

#128

Post by cmyk_student »

James_K wrote: post #126
cmyk_student wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The challenge is that there's only so many volunteers contributing to GIMP, and lots of people with requests. The loudest/most frequent ones tend to be addressed first (as volunteers are able). For instance, I worked on non-destructive editing because so many people said it was an essential missing feature that also needed to be there 20 years ago. Now that it's implemented, I've seen a lot of happy people who apprec…

The idea that you can never make a good piece of software is backwards and wrong. There should come a point where your software has the essential features and reasonable UX. Producing software which does what the user wants without being actively hostile to them is the bare minimum. It doesn't take 20 years, it's not an endless process. If you spend 20 years doing it, you are managing your time badly. GIMP is managin…

To clarify, I wasn't talking about the developers' priorities as a whole. I personally get inspiration for "big" projects to work on by scrolling various platforms and seeing what the most frequent complaints are, but that's not how development decisions are made.

And I can promise you, non-destructive editing was repeatedly requested by users, not just software developers. I have also seen a large number of users happy about the feature being implemented, as well as videos and screenshots of it being used effectively. It was a net positive in my opinion, even if there's more work to do in addition.

That's not to say your particular issue won't be addressed of course! You're just the first person I've seen to make that specific complaint, compared to the larger number of users asking for more CMYK support, shape tool, built-in Resynthesizer etc. What's been really nice about the RC1 release is that more members of the community are willing to try out 3.0 (compared to the various 2.99 releases) and give feedback. People use GIMP in lots of different ways, and if we don't use it in those ways then we don't see their specific problems.

Re: GIMP 3.0 is on the way

#129

Post by mixmastamyk »

carlosjobim wrote: post #118
leephillips wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not the price, or even the fact that one has to pay. There are huge practical, security, and privacy reasons to never put closed-source software on your computer.

Sorry, not gonna buy into the paranoia that exists within every cult, including the FOSS cult. If your graphic design work has to be extremely secretive, then you'll do it on a machine without an internet connection. Do you think secretive companies like Apple or car manufacturers use GIMP for their graphical work? Of course not. We're speaking about professionals now. If they need to, they will use devices without a…

Given enough resources, floss tools are often best in class. With your short-sighted attitude, Linux, Firefox, Blender, etc wouldn’t exist and we’d all be a lot poorer for it—fully controlled by the Oracles of the world without option.

Re: GIMP 3.0 is on the way

#130

Post by James_K »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #111
James_K wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would giving him more money improve the quality of his output? He also seems to not be in charge of the UI which is the major problem area. It's also worth noting that I could buy a subscription to Photoshop if we're talking about paying money to have software developed.

If you want to be a whiny customer then pay for commercial software and post your comments on their user forums, what are you doing here?

And if GIMP's proposition to its users is "you should use Photoshop instead", do you see why it won't succeed?
Post reply on HN