I don't see the issue here as much as I would like to dunk on the company. All those vendors on Apple's platform can take their wares elsewhere or if they feel so aggrieved they can start a class action motion.
RTFA
I did.
Apple vs. the "Free Market"
121–130 of 169 posts
Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"
#122Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
But they’re not stopping me from supporting creators. I can go to Patreon.com on my iPhone right now and subscribe to any creator without Apple’s fees. If they took their app off the App Store tomorrow I will continue to be able to have all of the functionality because they have a functioning mobile website that allows me to do everything I want to do. The web is a perfectly suitable alternative here and it’s working…
>If they took their app off the App Store tomorrow I will continue to be able to have all of the functionality because they have a functioning mobile website that allows me to do everything I want to do. The web is a perfectly suitable alternative here and it’s working, so why exactly do they need to be on a store with rules they don’t agree with? Because majority of the people expect that app exists for everything a…
> because Patreon.com is not just a website, it is a complex web app
I don’t agree with this as someone who uses Patreon relatively frequently. It’s actually quite a simple website, and the main thing I care about is the ability to manage my subscriptions, which I can do on the mobile website today.
Maybe there’s an argument for the creator posts being a bit more complex, but nothing a non PWA shouldn’t be able to handle well.
Also with Patreon specifically, the creators tend to tell users how to support them, so it’s trivial to include “make sure to visit the website, it works on mobile too!” When they call out.
Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"
#124> Tumblr still remains heavily moderated and heavily censored. Why? Because Apple kept kicking Tumblr out of the App Store on the basis that it contained sexual material, and without Apple users, Tumblr was dead in the water > Apple claims this is merely a matter of "editorial standards," no different from a bookstore deciding not to shelve pornography. The difference is that in this case, Apple can block you from pa…
You do not. This has been established for quite some time. You’re not forced to purchase Apple. If you like Apple, you know you’re getting the ecosystem that comes with it. Honestly the App Store is already garbage with the heavy amount of moderation it has. I can’t imagine what a cesspool it would be without that oversight. Admittedly, I’m a fan of this approach. I like it. If I didn’t, I just wouldn’t buy Apple pro…
> You’re not forced to purchase Apple.
Smartphones are necessary to interact with the modern world. This level of importance opens them to regulation. Just because Android is an alternative doesn't change this. My town has two hospitals. The existence of some sort of choice doesn't mean hospitals should be able to be unregulated.
"Don't blame me I voted for kodos!"
> Honestly the App Store is already garbage with the heavy amount of moderation it has.
Sounds like you would be open to a more strictly moderated alternative!
Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"
#125I agree with some opinions and the sentiment of this article, but in some parts the author, perhaps unintentionally, makes false or misleading claims to simply provoke outrage and demonize Apple. For example:
> Every artist, performer and creator on Patreon is about to get screwed out of 30% of their gross revenue, which will be diverted to Apple.
This is inaccurate, as not all Patreon subscribers use iOS devices to support creators.
Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"
#126> Tumblr still remains heavily moderated and heavily censored. Why? Because Apple kept kicking Tumblr out of the App Store on the basis that it contained sexual material, and without Apple users, Tumblr was dead in the water > Apple claims this is merely a matter of "editorial standards," no different from a bookstore deciding not to shelve pornography. The difference is that in this case, Apple can block you from pa…
> do we own our devices, or not?
Ownership is a bundle of rights that takes colloquial meaning based on context [1]. (Owning a cat, ornament, painting, apartment and freehold plot are functionally distinct.)
The words this discussion demands are possession and control, the machine codes of ownership. You possess your device on purchase. You do not control it. Even if you controlled the OS, the carriers wouldn’t let you control the chipset connecting to their network.
Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
Again: you can literally go on Patreon.com on your iPhone right now and subscribe to any creator you want without paying Apple’s fees. The mobile web is literally a suitable alternative and competitor right now, but for some reason people on HN have given up on this concept and think every website needs an app. Patreon should just leave the App Store and invest in their already great multi platform website with no ga…
>Again: you can literally go on Patreon.com on your iPhone right now and subscribe to any creator you want without paying Apple’s fees. I'm glad that walled gardens like Apple and their App Store teach people how valuable is the Open Web.
Same here: the default option is not to put your website on the App Store, I’m sorry but it isn’t. It’s 2024 and there have been so many advancements in web technology, I’m tired of people arguing that the web isn’t even an option for the vast majority of websites out there.
I get that some apps need the computing power and unique APIs that you can only get via building a native app, but Patreon should not be an app. And the crazy thing is they already have a great website that works really well on mobile. What do you need the App Store for?! Just leave Apple to their practices that you disagree with and focus on yourself, making the best possible product for your users that is distributed via the open web.
Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
"If Netscape doesn’t like Microsoft’s bundled IE with Windows, they should just take their app off the Windows OS. All these companies moaning about Microsoft yet aren’t doing the one thing they have the power to do which is just leave. If they refuse to leave, then they’re admitting that Microsoft’s platform is providing value to them and they should pay what Microsoft wants." The irony is striking: Microsoft (Windo…
Patreon is a web site. It shouldn't even have an app.
Thank you! And not just any website, a good mobile website, too.
Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"
#129Apple exists within the same free market as it’ customers and competitors. The high customer satisfaction is the lock-in. High customer satisfaction can easily explain the success. The idea that lock-in breeds high customer satisfaction needs to be proven to me. Considering Microsoft’s dominance was cheered on by the Microsoft ecosystem and derided in customer satisfaction is noteworthy to me. Apple has high customer…
The app ecosystem is the lock-in, and creates a very high bar to entry for other players outside the Apple-Google duopoly. Note that Google has created a dependency on proprietary Google Play Services, and owns the Play Store, so even leveraging AOSP is not sufficient to overcome the barrier to entry. There are two established players. Apple can charge whatever they want, and Google can copy their strategy, because t…
Customer satisfaction is high and there are other platforms with lower bars.
The high bar is the product differentiation that Apple is using.
Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
When people describe services where “the user is the product”, they’re generally referring to the fact that the primary business model of the company selling those services is to impinge on individual privacy by collecting extremely detailed information about those users and then selling that information to interested parties. It is that intimate detail that makes each user so valuable. Google is buying search traffi…
> When people describe services where “the user is the product”, they’re generally referring to the fact that the primary business model of the company selling those services is to impinge on individual privacy by collecting extremely detailed information about those users and then selling that information to interested parties. It is that intimate detail that makes each user so valuable This is your personal definit…
This phrase has been around since at least 2010 and has been popularized over the years by many big names in tech and media circles ranging from Tim O'Reilly and Bruce Schneier to Jake Tapper among many many others. In most cases, that coverage was just highlighting discussions already happening across various social spaces. And the concept behind this sentiment can be traced to earlier TV advertising days. Not my personal definition. [0][1][2][3][4][5] (there are dozens, if not hundreds more).
I've never heard anyone use it to describe Apple's approach to ads or search agreements until this comment thread. I'm not excited about debating semantics, but there's a lot of conceptual weight attached to the phrase that can't be ignored here.
- [0]: https://techland.time.com/2010/10/15/facebook-youre-not-the-...
- [1]: https://x.com/timoreilly/status/22823381903
- [2]: https://x.com/jaketapper/status/976473447374221313
- [3]: https://bryanalexander.org/digital-literacy/you-are-the-prod...
- [4]: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/09/ello-...
- [5]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvZYwaQlJsg (1973)