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Paul Graham's Letter to YC Companies

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121–130 of 204 posts

Re: Paul Graham's Letter to YC Companies

#121
post #22

Note incidentally that I'm talking about the performance of the IPO, not the performance of Facebook itself. I think Facebook as a company is in a strong position. The problem is simply that Mr. Market ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Intelligent_Investor ) doesn't think so at the moment.

You say Mr. Market doesn't think Facebook is in a strong position.

How do you evaluate that? Facebooks Market value is 70 Billion. Its P/E ratio is 86. If that isnt an appraisal of a strong position, what is? Where do you draw the line?

Re: Paul Graham's Letter to YC Companies

#122
post #120
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One's local circle of friends on FB makes for perhaps 1%, in terms of its quality & value, of the overall number of signals(200?), that Google uses for its search. Just like we come to HN for discussions, which our social circle on FB is not able to satisfy. Similarly, people will continue to go to the best search engine for searching for information. Even today, if you want to get an overall sense of what people are…

>>Similarly, people will continue to go to the best search engine for searching for information. There is no reason why Facebook can't become that. If Apple can make phones and Google can make phone OS. If Microsoft can make gaming consoles. There is nothing stopping FB from doing it.

Yes, that's possible. But then it will be doing something new and different, isn't it? And it has to be more based on the spending power it has. And not related to its social network power.

Google put G+ on its home page, with not much success. Similarly, why should FB get a leverage out of just putting search on its home page. Unless the search is really better than Google's. What advantage FB has over say blekko in competing in search?

Re: Paul Graham's Letter to YC Companies

#123

I read this with a heavy heart, especially after working at Facebook before my current startup. Facebook is an amazing company with some of the best people in Silicon Valley working to make Facebook a once-in-a-generation company. But if Google debuted at $25b, and grew into a $200b company, how can Facebook grow by a similar multiple starting at a $100b valuation? In my opinion, opening at $38/share sucked all the o…

It's important to remember that pre-IPO Google was a vastly different company than post-IPO Google. It wasn't just the Eric Schmidt factor, which cannot be ignored, but the way the company seemed to position itself. With billions in the bank they could take more risks, explore new markets, and branch out in somewhat unpredictable ways. In 2004 Google Maps didn't exist. Android was an independent entity. The Google se…

Maybe, that's a possibility.There is a very good possibility that Facebook will be in the same range as Google or Apple. an if any companies have a chance at $500b in 2020, Facebook are probably in the run. It's just not all that likely.

There is also a possibility that Facebook won't be able to monetize with the same effectiveness as Google. It's also possible that Facebook will have fewer active users in 2020.

Valueing a company purely in terms of its current cashflows and assets without taking into account its potential is wrong. I'm not saying that. Companies have quality and Facebook is absolutely a quality company. This way of thinking about businesses (good companies & bad companies) is rightly ingrained in the way we talk about companies. Talking about them as over/under valued companies seems shortsighted and it is, especially if you are talking about startups. When good startup investors make their most hopeful investments, valuation comes second.

This is also true of bigger companies. Google has quality that Yahoo doesn't. Facebook has quality that Groupon doesn't. Warren Buffet evaluates companies this way - great companies at a fair price.

but..

every rule of thumb has a reductio ad absurdum. "Valuation doesn't matter if the company is a great company" only goes so far. The way Facebook was/is valued takes into account their potential to grow like Google. It takes into account their potential to be the biggest company in the world. It doesn't take into account their potential to fail. The way its priced even defines as failure outcomes that should be defined as success. If Facebook can double its profits every 3 years for the next 10 years they'll probably still be a moderate failure for those who bought at $100b. If they double every 5 years, it'll be a bomb.

Re: Paul Graham's Letter to YC Companies

#124
post #35
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think Facebook as a company is in a strong position. Just curious, but I'd like to hear your opinion on why this is the case, vs all the naysayers that are betting against the company now. Do you have any specific point you find that Facebook can leverage to maintain success?

I don't think they've even tried to make money yet. They've just been focusing on growth. But they have so many users now that they could do whatever they want. Ideas that would entail a chicken and egg problem for anyone starting from scratch (e.g. marketplaces) do not for them. Plus Mark himself is such a fearsomely effective person. And so young; he's only a little older now than Larry and Sergey were when they st…

Agreed. Facebook could do everything.

Any economical transaction involves a social transaction as well. Facebook, can be the underlying architecture of every economy.

Facebook is at the core of a large, new economic ecosystem: apps, websites, ads, mobile, causes, almost everything you can think of. They can enter in any business, and for sure they are going to expand these below, to rich an enormous amount of revenue over the next years.

Ads: I don’t know about any platform that will be able to show ads to (soon) +1B people. Their current page views is impressive, around 1 trillion/month. Ads revenue still small, compared to the amount of users they have, because the right formula to show the ads to the right people takes time to arrive at a perfect level. But when it does, it will be like a sniper, it will show a product/service you want, the moment you want. The social graph is becoming the DNA of the entire world population, it will increase its value as time passes.

Platform/Apps: They have built one of the biggest platforms with 9MM apps. Third-party apps integration and the entire FB platform is just one the most powerful things on the internet. It allowed new companies to plug into the FB community and scale a new user base quickly. FB is basically becoming an app ecosystem, maybe more powerful than Apple itself. Millions of devs are implementing their FB authentication system “FB connect”, giving FB the ability to know every detail about an app usage, the ability to gather data and visualize those data to people that matter to them. Moreover, with the new App Center they can send a big portion of traffic to various mobile app stores and take a cut out of the revenue for all those “price x install” apps: in May 2012, 90MM users were sent directly to Apple’s App Store. 7 of iOS Top 10 apps and 8 of Android Top 10 apps are integrated with Facebook. App maketing is very lucrative. The ‘LIKE” button is having a tremendous impact on media, brands and basically on the overall internet traffic; it’s a viral machine. And being able to show “events/actions” in a user timeline, is incredibly powerful; listen, watch, read, cook…can you get an idea?

Specific APIs: There is some sort of overlap between APIs and FB platform. As of today all FB APIs are free. But I don’t believe in giving for free additional value will last forever. Directly or indirectly FB will start to monetize its API calls. Directly by charging the premium usage of the Social Graph data or other specific ad-hoc new APIs and indirectly by taking a cut of the revenue that third-party developers are generating by leveraging FB APIs. The Social Graph owns more than 100 Petabytes of user data, that’s 2x the size of the entire written works of mankind. 12,8% of the world population generates real-time data, analyzed and stored by Facebook. Obviously, some APIs will remain free but the rest will be a cash machine.

Coupons/Deals: They failed here, but they will not give up. With FB Mobile, they know where you are. They can show you related deals the moment you enter in club or a grocery. A Groupon-like experience, but empowered with a more accurate location, your personal tastes and of course, friends with their recommendations. 

Facebook Credits/Payments: I believe this is going to be a tremendous revenue stream over the years. It may even surpass the Ads revenue one day. I envision a world, where every time you have to pay over the internet and offline you will have to just click a button: “Pay with Facebook Credits” from Ebay to Expedia or use your FB mobile app at the cashier. It will become the universal currency.

Much more: there are a tons of things that they can do, from user subscriptions (imagine having just 10% of the users paying $9/month to access premium services); travels, to organize weddings. But you know what? They don’t need to, there is the platform for that.

Facebook is basically becoming a new kind of telco. Facebook is speed. A new version of Facebook is released every Tuesday, there are 12,000 modifications per month, more than 1000 developers deliver code to be released each week.  Facebook average employee is 26 years-old.

FB could do everything.

Re: Paul Graham's Letter to YC Companies

#125
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking of 2001-2002 (genuine downturn) and then separately 2003-7 (great time to invest - e.g when I invested in Skype). Obviously 2008-ish (RIP good times) was the 3rd. Maybe I shouldn't have called them "downturns" but instead "depressed VC periods".

I was working in banking 2007-20010, and wasn't so wired into the startup scene then. What was good for startups and tech during that time? (Disclaimer - expecting a repeat of it in the next few years, want to be prepared).

I would think QE 1 + 2, where the abundant institutional capital eventually flowed to VCs since the private markets in the tech sector was the only thing that was really performing post early 2009.

Re: Paul Graham's Letter to YC Companies

#126
post #109
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many ebay users also use FB. And a lot of FB users use Paypal. Think about it. Ads, movies, music, even games aren't really what will help then make huge amounts of money. Transactions will.

Agree transactions will make money for somebody. Let me take just take one example of 'movies' from your sentence. Would you think of Youtube or Facebook as a natural choice for watching paid videos/movies? Likewise, IMO, there will be specific things for specific purposes. I will proffer that the specific purpose for FB usage are things like vanity and managing one's image (how one wants to be seen in their social c…

>>Recently I am seeing some 'xyz watched some on Social cam' kind of statuses on FB, of some xyzs who I am sure have not noticed such broadcast to their friends. These kind of mistakes, might just result in some very embarrassed and angry people.

This is true. Since I observed this. I take care to log out of Gmail/Facebook/Twitter once I am done with them. And I never browse anything when I'm logged into into one of those sites.

>>Am I the only one scared of clicking on anything, on any web page on the Internet, that is wrapped in 'Facebook blue' ?

A lot of people are scared. I had to call friend to tell him personally that the he watched that is showing up as the status might be embarrassing and he had to login and delete that from this status.

Re: Paul Graham's Letter to YC Companies

#127
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect it's because investors think that one of the few routes to 'exit' a company and cash out your investment just got closed down, at least in the short term. That increases the risk of investing and therefore lowers the valuation.

Certainly the path to IPO is so long that someone seeking VC funding today won't be in a climate defined by Facebook. For all its faults, SOX did kill the "retail VC" style of IPO popularized in the last bubble. Getting to IPO now is a very long road.

Actually a cyclical stock market cycle typically last 4 years. It's generally accepted that we've been in a bull cycle for the last few years, which is prone to shift, with the lackluster Facebook IPO as "the warning sign". If you're raising VC now, you've probably been in business for 1 to 2 years, which means if you exit in another 4 years, it could very well be a terrible secondary market by then. At least some investors will think so.

Poor market sentiment also affects M&A. I remember from my banking days in 2008, where one of my clients with $2 billion in cash wouldn't even fork over $100 million to acquire a company at 9x revenue with 80% revenue growth.

So over all exit options are appearing less attractive for VCs, thus they're likely to fund less companies at lower valuations.

Re: Paul Graham's Letter to YC Companies

#130

I read this with a heavy heart, especially after working at Facebook before my current startup. Facebook is an amazing company with some of the best people in Silicon Valley working to make Facebook a once-in-a-generation company. But if Google debuted at $25b, and grew into a $200b company, how can Facebook grow by a similar multiple starting at a $100b valuation? In my opinion, opening at $38/share sucked all the o…

I'm not so sure you need to be so worried with your heavy heart, Eric. I know you and MemSQL will be just FINE. Certainly with all of your YC connections, you must be able to make something happen? You must have at least one strategic friendship you gained say... six months ago that could be of some tremendous value to you? Sometimes you need to socially climb and never look back in order to get what you want. I learned that from someone I used to respect. To me, a man without integrity is nothing. He's worthless. And so too is the value of his pursuits.
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