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Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

theguardian.com

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Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#121

Post by vundercind »

avgcorrection wrote: post #77
alkonaut wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An anonymous tip and a few inspections of staff logs and payrolls would make it pretty easy to make this disappear. The problem is that these sort of things (what regulations exist, whether authorities prioritize enforcing them) seems to always be answered with "no, because it's a poor people problem". It's unfair competition though, so it's really important that this doesn't happen. A restaurant that wants do to the…

> It's unfair competition though, so it's really important that this doesn't happen. A restaurant that wants do to the right thing shouldn't have to worry about a few % worse competitiveness on wages because the asshat across the street has his staff work for free. The true crime is as always the impact on businesses.

I think it’s worth calling out that failing to enforce regulations corrodes entire industries to the point that it’s impossible to compete in many sectors of it without breaking the law and screwing over workers (and maybe also customers!)

It’s a way in which this is bad that folks may not immediately connect to it.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#122

Post by joncrocks »

avgcorrection wrote: post #73
spamizbad wrote: post #9

This phenomena is pretty widespread in the service industry and I would venture to say that a significant minority of businesses participate in some version of wage theft. For example, one of my jobs right out of high school was waiting tables at a local restaurant. If you were opening, the expectation from owners and management was you'd get in early to help open but would wait 15 minutes before service started befo…

> not only would they fire you but they'd call up all their industry buddies and you'd basically be on every other restaurants no-hire list. So like a much-dreaded union for employers except it’s underhanded and illegal.

I think the word is Cartel.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#123

Post by pierat »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #72
pierat wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In reality.... If you steal $100 worth of food from a store, they'll call the cops and arrest you. If the store steals wages from you in the tune of $1000+, its a.... CIVIL MATTER (waves hands).

Which incident receives media coverage as it happens?

Given the breathless reporting of "MAJOR CHAIN STORE SHUTS DOWN SINGLE BUSINESS DUE TO EXTREME THEFT", yeah.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/as-retailers-close-stores-...

https://www.npr.org/2023/09/28/1202264923/major-retailers-bl...

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/19/target-store-closures-theft-...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/target-closing-stores-2023-san-...

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/26/business/target-retail-theft-...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/target-stores-theft-1.69794...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11965589/The-stores...

------------------------

However, on the actual wage theft side, is scattered articles about a single bad company, or policies from stuffy think tanks and "boring" and non-sensationalized sources.

https://www.cohousedems.com/news/wage-theft-prevention-passe...

https://www.dir.ca.gov/DIRNews/2024/2024-10.html

https://www.propublica.org/article/wage-theft-law-new-york-v...

https://blog.dol.gov/2024/02/07/protecting-workers-rights-at...

https://calmatters.org/politics/capitol/2024/01/wage-theft-c...

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#124

Post by eterm »

lupire wrote: post #97
spamizbad wrote: post #9

This phenomena is pretty widespread in the service industry and I would venture to say that a significant minority of businesses participate in some version of wage theft. For example, one of my jobs right out of high school was waiting tables at a local restaurant. If you were opening, the expectation from owners and management was you'd get in early to help open but would wait 15 minutes before service started befo…

The "industry buddies" but seems like a Boogeyman meant to scare people.

That's exactly what it is, but the kids they employ don't know better.

The idea that there's a cabal of restaurant owners who get together to discuss in detail how they're breaking the law and maintain a blacklist is absurd when you stop to think about it.

But they're more than happy to let those kind of rumours keep doing the rounds to scare the naive young people into not sticking up for themselves.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#125

Post by lupire »

sneak wrote: post #66
darth_avocado wrote: post #43

People thinking wage theft only affects lower wage workers, let me tell you how tech companies commit wage theft: 1. Having annual components to wages (RSUs, bonuses), making you work all year and firing you just before they have to pay you. 2. Having no overtime for salaried employees 3. Having employees work extra responsibilities that are not part of the job description by promising promotions and then not giving…

Any promises not made in writing and signed by both parties aren’t promises. None of these are theft, just poor business skills on the part of the employees. Get it in writing so you can sue later, or don’t ever count on it. It’s basic business skills.

Oral contracts are legally enforceable.

Your claim is that any crime where the evidence is destroyed isn't a crime.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#126

Post by ToucanLoucan »

avgcorrection wrote: post #73
spamizbad wrote: post #9

This phenomena is pretty widespread in the service industry and I would venture to say that a significant minority of businesses participate in some version of wage theft. For example, one of my jobs right out of high school was waiting tables at a local restaurant. If you were opening, the expectation from owners and management was you'd get in early to help open but would wait 15 minutes before service started befo…

> not only would they fire you but they'd call up all their industry buddies and you'd basically be on every other restaurants no-hire list. So like a much-dreaded union for employers except it’s underhanded and illegal.

If you want to demonstrate to someone why the legal system is designed for the wealthy and not the common people, I don't think you can do better than the entire subject of wage theft. Wage theft utterly eclipses every other form of larceny in the United States at least, and it is practically legal in every way apart from the letter of the law. Few companies ever see any consequences at all, and the few that do, it's fines here and there. No criminal liability. Certainly no SWAT teams raiding gated communities daily to haul off white collar criminals the way they'll roll out and obliterate an entire home (sometimes even the correct one) to catch someone selling weed.

The societal impact of this crime cannot be overstated. Billions of dollars stolen from workers, practically free of consequence.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#127

Post by lupire »

darth_avocado wrote: post #96
sneak wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any promises not made in writing and signed by both parties aren’t promises. None of these are theft, just poor business skills on the part of the employees. Get it in writing so you can sue later, or don’t ever count on it. It’s basic business skills.

> It’s basic business skills Job offers are often take it or leave it, because of the inherent power dynamics in the industry. These “basic business skills” will essentially leave you out of a job.

So? Taking the job blocks someone else out of it. Both are good people, so overall it doesn't matter who gets the job. The root of the problem lies elsewhere.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#128

Post by anon291 »

teeray wrote: post #56
alkonaut wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if there has ever been a case (I'm sure there has) where someone stole say a $20 from the register, because the manager owed them $20. And whether the fact they could prove the manager owed them money made any difference in the theft case.

Courts generally take a dim view of “self help,” however just it may be.

Well they shouldn't. Legislators should make recovery on debt for employees be self-service just like normal debt recovery.

Really there ought to be a pretty straightforwards system. You go to the local court showing your employment contract and proof of hours worked. Court contacts employer same day (could be automated phone system or e-mail) with X days to respond (ideally like 1 or 2). If no response, or no satisfactory response, you are given a certificate you can take to the business's bank to withdraw from their accounts directly, just like a wage garnishment. Why won't legislators think of solutions to such basic issues, instead of spending time on endless culture war nonsense? This seems like one of these things that ought to be 'easy.' Also allow for substantial interest penalties, like seven percent per day or something.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#129

Post by baq »

sneak wrote: post #57
marcus0x62 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An anonymous tip and a few inspections of staff logs and payrolls would make it pretty easy to make this disappear. And culturally treating it like any other theft: a crime that should subject the thief, in a practical sense, to the risk of imprisonment.

Property crimes are rarely enforced against the ownership class. Law enforcement in the US exists to enforce the social order and class structure; they have no legal obligation to investigate or prosecute crimes. The system is working as intended.

Always has been.

Government is quite literally a criminal organization except it was decided by someone (people, representatives, a monarch, whatever) that this particular one is not criminal and any others like it are, within self-described boundaries.

It might or might not be doing criminal things (as in, things we associate with criminal), but it wants and needs a monopoly on those things, otherwise it risks dissolution by internal and/or external forces. It’s thus obvious it’ll prioritize protecting the mafia bosses/sovereigns/elites and thugs/enforcers.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#130

Post by anon291 »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #83
alkonaut wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if there has ever been a case (I'm sure there has) where someone stole say a $20 from the register, because the manager owed them $20. And whether the fact they could prove the manager owed them money made any difference in the theft case.

Two wrongs don't make a right in the eyes of the law I'm afraid. That said, there's been plenty of cases where the punishment for a crime was lessened due to the circumstances, like assault in self-defense. Dunno if that applies to theft vs wage theft though. That said, it's not a crime if you don't get caught. This too goes both ways.

If I were on a jury, I'd acquit. I have been on a grand jury and did choose several times not to indict someone that didn't do anything wrong. Juries are the final check on government power and jurists ought to exercise that power appropriately.
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