Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US • Hacker News Board

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#121

Post by bombcar » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 4:22 AM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #92

rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

I’d argue most families have two cars though. So you get one EV and keep the ICE until the charging infrastructure is where it needs to be. Another alternative is to just rent a car for that long road trip which I’ve done in the past. That being said, I think far more people worry about daily mileage than you think. People think in terms of time spent driving, not distance. They tend to assume every hour is 60 miles…

Range anxiety is real; it took quite a bit of work and trust for my wife to not fill the car anytime the tank registered half empty.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#122

Post by RHSeeger » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 4:23 AM UTC

camel_gopher wrote: post #64

rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

Sounds like the use case is perfect for a hybrid which does 30 miles electric.

We looked at getting a hybrid this past fall when buying a car, but couldn't find one that suited our needs. We didn't even look at an EV, because of the range issue (our relatives all live 2+ hours away, visits to them are frequent, and we can't charge it where they live).

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#123

Post by Server6 » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 4:26 AM UTC

pxeboot wrote: post #72

rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

My next car will be an EV. I have no concern about the advertised range. The real worry is what the range will look like in 5-10 years when it is cold out.

Depending on the weather my 2018 Model 3 will get 285-300 miles per charge. It was around 300-3015 when I got it. I've had zero issues. Range has never been a problem with the superchargers.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#124

Post by fiddlerwoaroof » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 4:26 AM UTC

iteria wrote: post #94

lukas099 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People focus too much on edge cases when making life decisions, imo. > We need a dining room for when we have parties (has a party once every 2 years; room sits empty 99% of the time) > We need a guest bedroom (guests could stay at the hotel down the street) > I need a pickup truck (driver is an accountant who maybe picks up a couple bags of mulch from Lowes twice a year) I'm glad I live in a prosperous society where…

It's about how often the edge case comes up. 4 to 12 times a year, I need to drive 300 miles to visit my family. 10 to 30 times a year, I'll drive 50 to 60 miles to visit friends/family or see specialist doctors or take trip to some interesting event. But on the vast majority of days I drive less than 10 miles a day. My edge cases come up fairly frequently and I don't really have a good fall back for them i could spe…

So, my Tesla is about as convenient as my Honda Odyssey to drive from Los Angeles to Houston. And, since I need two cars anyways (because of a wife and kids), the Tesla is a great car to have for all the trips where I don’t need more than five seats.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#125

Post by mcbishop » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 4:27 AM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #92

rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

I’d argue most families have two cars though. So you get one EV and keep the ICE until the charging infrastructure is where it needs to be. Another alternative is to just rent a car for that long road trip which I’ve done in the past. That being said, I think far more people worry about daily mileage than you think. People think in terms of time spent driving, not distance. They tend to assume every hour is 60 miles…

We have one EV and one ICE, and it works great.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#126

Post by subpixel » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 4:27 AM UTC

This supports my take, which is that the perfect EV is a plug-in hybrid with about 100m EV range, in addition to an ICE.

My RAV4 gets 50 depending on temps, so on average I use the ICE for about 10 miles of my long commute.

But I load up and drive 500 miles using gas when I need to, once in a while.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#127

Post by darknavi » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 4:28 AM UTC

jitl wrote: post #89

The electric offerings from most companies just don’t seem “there” yet. I don’t want a Tesla because AirPlay and adjustable aircon grates are non-negotiable for me, but the alternatives just don’t seem like a good bet yet. Hyundai is compelling, but most brands are offering electrified versions of non-EV platforms. An EV platform with low drag is much better, but outside of Tesla and Hyundai no one seems to be shippi…

> I don’t want a Tesla because AirPlay and adjustable aircon grates are non-negotiable for me, but the alternatives just don’t seem like a good bet yet.

Teslas have adjustable aircon vents, but only through the touch screen (at least on newer models). You can definitely aim/split them.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#128

Post by orasis » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 4:28 AM UTC

lukas099 wrote: post #78

rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

People focus too much on edge cases when making life decisions, imo. > We need a dining room for when we have parties (has a party once every 2 years; room sits empty 99% of the time) > We need a guest bedroom (guests could stay at the hotel down the street) > I need a pickup truck (driver is an accountant who maybe picks up a couple bags of mulch from Lowes twice a year) I'm glad I live in a prosperous society where…

When that edge case makes for an absolutely terrible experience of driving across North Dakota in 0F weather and having to stop every 150 miles then you definitely don’t forget that pain when buying your next car.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#129

Post by gamepsys » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 4:30 AM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #66

> But an analysis from CarGurus found that EV prices were still 28% higher than gas-vehicle prices on average. To me that is bonkers. When EVs were becoming popular, I was expecting to see super cheap, under $10k vehicles. That was the promise: forget about all the IC complicated gears, alternators, transmission, fuel pumps and imagine getting a motor and batteries, what could be simpler!". But no, we ended up with m…

The last time I bought a personal vehicle (2022) I did some math. I drive X miles a year, I pay Y for gas, I pay Z for electricity. I then compared some vehicles in the segment that fits my needs and found the ICE options to have a significantly lower cost of ownership for the 8-10 years I expect to operate the vehicle. So I left the extra 15 grand in stock, which will see a much higher rate of return than an EV would have.

It's not even Joe Schmoe that's looking at the up front costs. I don't think EVs pencil out as profitable for people that aren't doing more than average amounts of driving. For someone borrowing for the car I cannot image ever getting ahead compared to traditional vehicles if you get $10k-20k more into debt at 6%apr for 60 months. That's an additional $3500-7000 in interest which buys you a lot of oil changes and gasoline. I guess I'll do the math again in 2031 when it's time to start looking at a more modern car and see if they are a good deal or not.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#130

Post by bombcar » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 4:30 AM UTC

subpixel wrote: post #126

This supports my take, which is that the perfect EV is a plug-in hybrid with about 100m EV range, in addition to an ICE. My RAV4 gets 50 depending on temps, so on average I use the ICE for about 10 miles of my long commute. But I load up and drive 500 miles using gas when I need to, once in a while.

What you need is a PHEV that gets about 100 on battery, and has the ICE waiting for use.

And then sell a version that just has no engine and still 100 mile range, extra trunk.

And one where the ICE is replaced with another battery for additional range. Everything else about the three is identical.

Winner.