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TikTok says it's not the algorithm, teens are just pro-Palestine

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Re: TikTok says it's not the algorithm, teens are just pro-Palestine

#121

Post by ToucanLoucan »

parineum wrote: post #111
netsharc wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably Bin Laden got a great ROI on 9/11, what was his budget to train 20 terrorists, and the Dubya/Cheney/Rumsfeld response was lots of trillions of dollars, sending a lot of young Americans to death and disability, and a world that grew to hate the US even more (not just the Muslim world; Europe too, remember "Freedom Fries"?). And damn, 20 years later who runs Afghanistan? Taliban, with surplus Humvees. So yeah,…

> Arguably Bin Laden got a great ROI on 9/11 Arguably? If anyone argues against that they're wrong. Bin Laden accomplished his objectives and beyond. The US objectives weren't to deny Bin Laden his though, they were to kill Bin Laden (and topple Sadam, for some reason). Both of which we also accomplished. The half hearted nation building was a facade and led to the quagmire and chaos that ensued.

Don't forget the massive domestic government spending on defense projects and general war materiel. Wars are expensive, and the fossil fuel industry, the military industrial complex, etc. made BANK off of it.

Re: TikTok says it's not the algorithm, teens are just pro-Palestine

#122

Post by prmph »

apwell23 wrote: post #77
viraptor wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they account for more details, sure. They usually are. Take the comment originally responded to. Hamas is more of an underdog than Palestine, yet the public opinion we're discussing here is pro-palestinian, not pro-hamas.

> They usually are. No they are not. I can very easily come up with even more convoluted take than yours and call your shallow. Doesn't mean my convoluted take is superior. eg: it unlikely that american teens on tiktok can enumerate human rights. https://www.newscientist.com/definition/occams-razor/ "Occam’s razor is a principle often attributed to 14th–century friar William of Ockham that says that if you have two c…

But that is Ockham's opinion. Doesn't mean it is some unassailable universal truth. The keyword here is "should"; it is a prescriptive opinion, nothing more

Re: TikTok says it's not the algorithm, teens are just pro-Palestine

#123

Post by explaininjs »

xyzelement wrote: post #120
explaininjs wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is your argument that Palestinians should have been fine with hundreds of their people being killed by Israelis every year from 2015-2022, because it was less than the thousands of Palestinians killed by Israelis in 2014? And furthermore that none of those deaths gave justification for the 1200 Israelis killed by Palestinians this year, but those deaths somehow justify the 10,000 Palestinians killed by Israelis th…

I don’t see this as an eye for an eye bullshit so not sure what “justification” you are talking about. There was calm then there was an incursion that targeted civilians followed by military operation to root out Hamas. Non Hamas Palestinians are obviously caught in the crossfire

This “calm” “ceasefire” of your imagination was in fact a period where hundreds of Palestinians were being killed by Israelis each year, the real horror is that this was indeed less than before. You seem to think that’s below the threshold of importance?

Re: TikTok says it's not the algorithm, teens are just pro-Palestine

#124

Post by prmph »

wolverine876 wrote: post #118
xyzelement wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s actually quite simple. Israel was out of Gaza for years prior to Oct 7. On Oct 7, Hamas targeted over 1.5 thousand civilians including babies and the aged for slaughter and kidnapping. Resulting in a military operation to suppress Hamas. So yes if your level of nuance on this is “Israel is hurting human rights, ceasefire now” and you are oblivious to who broke the ceasefire and how, then it’s not that different…

The situation has no good answers, and Hamas committed murder, but this part is not the truth: > Israel was out of Gaza for years prior to Oct 7 Israel has conducted military actions in Gaza, but more significantly, they've blockaded Gaza, turning into a ghetto, since the 2000s. They control the Gaza economy and much more. It's not like the Sinai Desert that Israel left decades ago and has no influence in.

Gaza was not a ghetto by any stretch of the imagination. Check their HDI before the war. It exceeds that of many countries.

If Gaza was a ghetto, from where does Hamas get the money to stockpile vast amounts of arms? Couldn't that money have been used to improve living conditions.

Gaza had areas that were described as "wealthy". I wonder how that is possible in a "ghetto"

Re: TikTok says it's not the algorithm, teens are just pro-Palestine

#125

Post by wolverine876 »

prmph wrote: post #124
wolverine876 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation has no good answers, and Hamas committed murder, but this part is not the truth: > Israel was out of Gaza for years prior to Oct 7 Israel has conducted military actions in Gaza, but more significantly, they've blockaded Gaza, turning into a ghetto, since the 2000s. They control the Gaza economy and much more. It's not like the Sinai Desert that Israel left decades ago and has no influence in.

Gaza was not a ghetto by any stretch of the imagination. Check their HDI before the war. It exceeds that of many countries. If Gaza was a ghetto, from where does Hamas get the money to stockpile vast amounts of arms? Couldn't that money have been used to improve living conditions. Gaza had areas that were described as "wealthy". I wonder how that is possible in a "ghetto"

That differs from every credible source I've read for many years. Do you happen to have any credible sources that support that depiction?

Re: TikTok says it's not the algorithm, teens are just pro-Palestine

#126

Post by pgeorgi »

catlover76 wrote: post #91
pgeorgi wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To take another brutal war affecting civilians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Saud... sure sounds like it had the endorsement of two US Presidents both from ends of the political spectrum, and it was a money sink for over $50bn in US tax dollars in 6 years (see https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-22-105988 ). I'm not sure if those teens even know how to spell Yemen.

I totally hear you and think it's messed up too, but I'm not sure this line of argument makes sense. First, it's factually inapposite, because we don't have a bunch of disproportionately pro-Saudi American companies and billionaires trying to intimidate people speaking in favor of Yemeni civilians, considering ad blitzes to gaslight and obfuscate the issues, etc. We don't have a significant pro-Saudi bias in the medi…

> it's logically inane to say that someone's criticism of something is invalid because they didn't speak out or criticize some other thing that they most likely don't even know about.

I'm not saying the criticism of Hamas and/or Israel is invalid, I just found it worth pointing out that there are conflicts that teens somehow can make up their mind on (that's TikTok's claim, not mine) and strong enough that they take to the streets for that, while they likely haven't heard of other somewhat comparable conflicts (support by "their government", civilians dying, half the world away, ...) at all.

Maybe it's just the general media circus (Yemen _isn't_ very present in the media, after all), but "algorithm" or not, I'm considering TikTok part of that media circus.

As such, "the kids are just voicing their opinion" seems a rather shallow excuse to me: They pick up what gets amplified. Having no idea about Yemen but strong opinions on "who's the baddie" in Gaza (since folks like to talk colonialism: it's clearly the UK) doesn't sound like an independently formed opinion at all, and so I'm not willing to let TikTok (et al) off the hook.

Re: TikTok says it's not the algorithm, teens are just pro-Palestine

#127

Post by prmph »

wolverine876 wrote: post #125
prmph wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaza was not a ghetto by any stretch of the imagination. Check their HDI before the war. It exceeds that of many countries. If Gaza was a ghetto, from where does Hamas get the money to stockpile vast amounts of arms? Couldn't that money have been used to improve living conditions. Gaza had areas that were described as "wealthy". I wonder how that is possible in a "ghetto"

That differs from every credible source I've read for many years. Do you happen to have any credible sources that support that depiction?

Check these links:

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regions_of_Palestine_b...

- https://blog.kurby.ai/the-10-best-neighborhoods-in-gaza-pale...

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rimal

Re: TikTok says it's not the algorithm, teens are just pro-Palestine

#128

Post by prmph »

explaininjs wrote: post #123
xyzelement wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see this as an eye for an eye bullshit so not sure what “justification” you are talking about. There was calm then there was an incursion that targeted civilians followed by military operation to root out Hamas. Non Hamas Palestinians are obviously caught in the crossfire

This “calm” “ceasefire” of your imagination was in fact a period where hundreds of Palestinians were being killed by Israelis each year, the real horror is that this was indeed less than before. You seem to think that’s below the threshold of importance?

[flagged]

Re: TikTok says it's not the algorithm, teens are just pro-Palestine

#129

Post by wolverine876 »

prmph wrote: post #127
wolverine876 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That differs from every credible source I've read for many years. Do you happen to have any credible sources that support that depiction?

Check these links: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regions_of_Palestine_b... - https://blog.kurby.ai/the-10-best-neighborhoods-in-gaza-pale... - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rimal

Thanks. Not your job to provide them, but Wikipedia, especially about a white-hot topic, is not reliable in my book. I will keep an eye out.

Still, if you want to persuade people of extraordinary claims, you'll of course need very strong evidence.

Re: TikTok says it's not the algorithm, teens are just pro-Palestine

#130

Post by mrtksn »

lehi wrote: post #34

"TikTok was slammed for its pro-Palestinian hashtags... But Facebook and Instagram show the same imbalance." - https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/11/13/tiktok-...

It may indicate that the hashtags are created by the users and not by the platform. Needs further research. /s
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