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European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

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Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#121

Post by wizofaus »

Etheryte wrote: post #79
danpalmer wrote: post #6

I love the EU's focus on consumer protections and I'm all for progressive policies on environmental issues, but this and the USB-C issue strike me as misguided, policies from people who aren't qualified to to make the decisions they are making, and aren't listening to experts. I'm glad we're getting USB-C on the iPhone, but it wasn't a huge problem and it was probably coming anyway in the next few years. But replacea…

This is misguided, even though Apple is going to implement USB-C on the iPhone for the EU market, they're still not going to offer it in the US. It's naive to think big companies act in any interest besides their own unless forced.

If it drives an uptick in sales in the EU you can count on it being eventually implemented for customers in the US and elsewhere too. Though it's even possible Apple knows it will help sell the devices better - at least initially, but they prefer to have users more firmly locked into the Apple ecosystem.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#122

Post by hunter2_ »

saalweachter wrote: post #71
epolanski wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is waterproof even a real needed feature? Like, I've been owning mobile phones for 22 years at this point and it's literally something I've never cared or benefitted from. On the other hand, having replaceable batteries is definitely something that's been useful in the past.

Huh, really? I use my cell phone in the rain, I use my cell phone in the shower. I drop it in the mud and rinse it off in the sink. Waterproof is a top-tier feature, right up there with "not exploding the screen into a thousand shards when I drop it".

Some people live a life of random wetness, mud, and dropping things. Other people honestly do not. There should be products for both groups.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#124

Post by vel0city »

smn1234 wrote: post #77
eterevsky wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a battery lasts a couple of days, I would much rather my phone were waterproof than be able to swap the battery. Having a power bank solves the problem of discharged phone for me, and anyway I almost never have to use it. Being able to drop your phone in the water and pick it up still working is far more valuable to me.

I completely agree, that overall water resistance and IP rating would be more valuable. What's stopping figuring out how the hardware can achieve both battery replace-ability and water resistance? Phones already have holes in them, e.g. speakers and charger port, and yet are able to survive a water immersion event.

Its way easier for the speaker ports, you just seal the drivers well enough and they'll be sealed unless there's just too much pressure. The seal never experiences any mechanical wear, you can practically just glue it around the edge.

Similar thing with the charger/data port. The outside of the port can be completely sealed up with just the electrical connections going through. The port isn't ever opened, there's no mechanical wear of actually going in and out of the sealed area. Glue it all up but leave the electrical connectors exposed and its sealed.

A battery door is a whole 'nother issue. Starting off, its probably going to have considerably more perimeter needing to seal, especially if its like the doors of yore where you popped off a significant part of the back. Then, you'll need this seal to handle a lot of open/close events and be able to handle the dirt and debris which it will be exposed to. Keeping the device's profile thin gets way more complicated with all of these requirements, and the seal will probably still be less reliable than the seals for the charging port and the speakers/mics.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#125

Post by fnimick »

vineyardmike wrote: post #96
jklinger410 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the policies are pretty well informed. I do think USB-C was a huge problem, and I don't think it was coming in a few years. I'm not skeptical of replaceable batteries. I think the policy that forces them to be removable on top of working with 3rd party manufacturers is a good idea. I don't think replaceable batteries or USB-C requirements restrict the industries ability to move forward. Edit: You can continue…

> I don't think replaceable batteries or USB-C requirements restrict the industries ability to move forward. These ultra thin foldable phones probably couldn’t exist with removable batteries. The thinness required to make it comfortable to use would be hard and so would the structural integrity with a removable backplate. It would absolutely restrict durability since it’d make waterproof and dustproofing way more cha…

> Removable backs would limit wireless charging hardware like apples MagSafe (which is great!).

I had a phone with a removable back and wireless charging back in 2012. This isn't rocket science.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#126

Post by marcosdumay »

jjcm wrote: post #29
candiddevmike wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I blame Apple for everyone's obsession with size. Or really, thinness, as everyone seems to have pop tart phones as thin and fragile as glass--with such a large phone, what value does thinness really add? I'd rather have a less delicate, easily serviceable, thicker phone.

Have we forgotten about the Motorola RAZR? Thinness obsession was a thing long before Apple entered the game.

Whatever the culprit, I would really like my next phone to be thicker than its camera¹. This is such a bullshit design, but every single phone manufacturer adopted it.

1 - Without paying 4 times more. I don't think I can get it even paying 4 times more nowadays, but this was always how phone manufacturers lied about the features they wanted to push, by offering an alternative that costs 4 to 10 times more and using it to show nobody wants it.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#127

Post by alex7734 »

phyllistine wrote: post #97
alex7734 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engineers have become experts in selecting components so that they fail right after the warranty period. Replaceable batteries just means they will make something else weaker instead, preferably something that fries the device once it fails (see https://youtu.be/7cNg_ifibCQ?t=238 ). It's too dangerous not to, as nowadays phones (or computers in general) don't really need to be upgraded that often to remain useful. No…

> No manufacturer wants a repeat of the 1080Ti I think I'm out of the loop. What does this mean?

It's too good, as long as you don't need 4k, it still runs the newest games at full quality with more than acceptable performance. It has 11GB VRAM. And it's a 6 year old GPU.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#128

Post by FpUser »

constantcrying wrote: post #65
birdyrooster wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think batteries can technically be submerged in water and discharged safely but it's an engineering challenge. As long as the rest of the phone is waterproof I think we are okay.

It is significantly more complicated than that. Water isn't just dangerous because it short circuits, but because it also attacks the materials. You do not want water in your phone, seperating the battery compartment also increases thickness and complexity.

Super thin phones are impossible to hold without the hefty case.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#129

Post by codetrotter »

deelowe wrote: post #120
surgical_fire wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please, EU: bring a law that forces manufacturers to release their drivers / firmware whenever they stop updating a digital device. I wish I could upvote this more. It's a crime how I had to throw away in the past perfectly usable devices because they were forced into obsolescence.

I don't see how this would work given modern supply chains. It can be extremely difficult to track down all of the owners of a particular IP and when you do, many of them may not even exist any longer making it near impossible to get any sort of permission to do something like this.

> many of them may not even exist any longer making it near impossible to get any sort of permission to do something like this

So plan ahead. For the 2024 model of each iPhone, get all the permissions to release all of the firmware in year 2032.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#130

Post by x3874 »

chrisbrandow wrote: post #119
epolanski wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is waterproof even a real needed feature? Like, I've been owning mobile phones for 22 years at this point and it's literally something I've never cared or benefitted from. On the other hand, having replaceable batteries is definitely something that's been useful in the past.

Is it useful to protect an $800 device from being ruined by accidentally dunking it in a pool, lake, toilet? Yes.

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