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European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

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Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#91

Post by joemi »

RobotToaster wrote: post #23
tallowen wrote: post #4

I wish there were better approaches to solving the problems around replacing batteries. This solution has downsides in terms of size (extra material required to surround the battery) and waterproofness. I like the features that will have to trade off against replaceable batteries. I wish there were more opportunities for creative solutions to ewaste rather than the specific outcome being regulated.

Cameras have been weatherproof with replaceable batteries for years, it's called gaskets.

Cameras are also much larger, so there are more options for how to optimally weatherproof them, such as thicker gaskets or moving circuitry to better locations.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#92

Post by waihtis »

danpalmer wrote: post #6

I love the EU's focus on consumer protections and I'm all for progressive policies on environmental issues, but this and the USB-C issue strike me as misguided, policies from people who aren't qualified to to make the decisions they are making, and aren't listening to experts. I'm glad we're getting USB-C on the iPhone, but it wasn't a huge problem and it was probably coming anyway in the next few years. But replacea…

> misguided, policies from people who aren't qualified to to make the decisions they are making, and aren't listening to experts.

Ask yourself what kind of game regulators are really playing?

See how many former banking regulators end up working at large banks, same is true for pharma and without even looking probably many other industries. The regulatory system is in place only partially to safeguard people, it is also in place to enforce barriers of entry and it is in place to act as a nice career pathway for it's participants.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#93

Post by tonyarkles »

epolanski wrote: post #34
gevz wrote: post #9

I wonder what is the definition of easily removable and replaceable. Does popping a few screws and using a specialized tool qualifies as easy? What about re-sealing the device after to keep the waterproof rating?

Is waterproof even a real needed feature? Like, I've been owning mobile phones for 22 years at this point and it's literally something I've never cared or benefitted from. On the other hand, having replaceable batteries is definitely something that's been useful in the past.

> literally something I've never cared or benefitted from

I'm happy for you, for never having lost a phone due to an accidental encounter with water. I haven't lost one recently, but:

- I fumbled an old flip phone while having a night out on the town and dropped it into the toilet.

- I replaced it with a really cute small Kyocera candy bar phone, that my girlfriend at the time didn't notice was still in my pants pocket when she washed my pants (I'm not sure if waterproofing would have saved this...)

- I recently dropped an iPhone 12 into a bathtub full of water and suffered 0 ill effects from it.

If I had to choose between replaceable batteries and waterproofing, I'm not sure which I'd personally choose. I've changed internal batteries in a few phones over the years... it was a bit of a hassle, but kept a $1000 device alive for another year or two. The water-killed phones... there was no bringing them back to life.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#94

Post by perlgeek »

refurb wrote: post #13
adaml_623 wrote: post #3

Cool. The manufacturers will figure out a way to make nice phones with a longer lifetime. Because the EU forces them to.

Or they just create one phone for the EU market and don't market the rest?

If they do, and it turns out that people generally prefer the EU model, other regulators might follow.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#95

Post by constantcrying »

nulld3v wrote: post #68
constantcrying wrote: post #22

I still do not agree with that rule. Replacable batteries are at odds with water tightness. I would have bought more phones if mine didn't survive water to a great extent. I think instead the regulation should focus on making parts available and phones reasonably easy to repair. This will most likely include switching out seals, which are needed for the protection from water.

> Replacable batteries are at odds with water tightness. Are you sure? I've seen many phones that are both IP* rated and have a replacable battery.

The one I know of was a Samsung which didn't really succeed at water tightness.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#96

Post by vineyardmike »

jklinger410 wrote: post #20
danpalmer wrote: post #6

I love the EU's focus on consumer protections and I'm all for progressive policies on environmental issues, but this and the USB-C issue strike me as misguided, policies from people who aren't qualified to to make the decisions they are making, and aren't listening to experts. I'm glad we're getting USB-C on the iPhone, but it wasn't a huge problem and it was probably coming anyway in the next few years. But replacea…

I think the policies are pretty well informed. I do think USB-C was a huge problem, and I don't think it was coming in a few years. I'm not skeptical of replaceable batteries. I think the policy that forces them to be removable on top of working with 3rd party manufacturers is a good idea. I don't think replaceable batteries or USB-C requirements restrict the industries ability to move forward. Edit: You can continue…

> I don't think replaceable batteries or USB-C requirements restrict the industries ability to move forward.

These ultra thin foldable phones probably couldn’t exist with removable batteries. The thinness required to make it comfortable to use would be hard and so would the structural integrity with a removable backplate.

It would absolutely restrict durability since it’d make waterproof and dustproofing way more challenging, if possible at all.

Removable backs would limit wireless charging hardware like apples MagSafe (which is great!).

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#97

Post by phyllistine »

alex7734 wrote: post #28
adaml_623 wrote: post #3

Cool. The manufacturers will figure out a way to make nice phones with a longer lifetime. Because the EU forces them to.

Engineers have become experts in selecting components so that they fail right after the warranty period. Replaceable batteries just means they will make something else weaker instead, preferably something that fries the device once it fails (see https://youtu.be/7cNg_ifibCQ?t=238 ). It's too dangerous not to, as nowadays phones (or computers in general) don't really need to be upgraded that often to remain useful. No…

> No manufacturer wants a repeat of the 1080Ti

I think I'm out of the loop. What does this mean?

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#98

Post by bluSCALE4 »

epolanski wrote: post #34
gevz wrote: post #9

I wonder what is the definition of easily removable and replaceable. Does popping a few screws and using a specialized tool qualifies as easy? What about re-sealing the device after to keep the waterproof rating?

Is waterproof even a real needed feature? Like, I've been owning mobile phones for 22 years at this point and it's literally something I've never cared or benefitted from. On the other hand, having replaceable batteries is definitely something that's been useful in the past.

I think it's pretty necessary. I remember I went to a theme park and wanted to have a good time and got drenched. My new phone was ruined. Just the other day, a friend that tried to throw me into a pool got pulled in with me. He had his phone on him. Though the last one is a bad example, sometimes you want to do something spur of the moment and not worry about ruining your phone.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#100

Post by nickff »

ruined wrote: post #88
upon_drumhead wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I paid $99 to get my iPhone XS Max's battery replaced directly by Apple a few weeks back. That phone is almost 5 years old. I really don't think that $99 is unreasonable.

apple support is an exception. and that's still half the cost of a good used iphone xs. if you'd just bought new old stock, you'd be ahead. i'm currently running a pixel 4, and a battery swap would cost more than i spent on the phone.

Used iPhone XSs are selling for <2/3 the price of new old stock (NOS). Why did you shift from one item to the other in the middle of your comment?
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