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Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

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121–130 of 192 posts

Re: Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

#121
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(1) Why do you think Israel should be obliged to supply electricity to a hostile territory Why do you think a newly found state (~65 years) has any right to claim the territory it occupies (except of the might makes right variety)? ruled by a government that explicitly states it's desire to destroy it [1] As opposed to a government that occupied the land from the previous inhabitants and has been steadily displacing…

Sorry, but I can't see any actual response to my questions here, just further hate mongering. Israel does not claim Gaza. It withdrew completely from Gaza in 2005, and gave full control over to the Palestinian Authority. Israeli NGOs even invested tens of millions of dollars in boosting the Palestinian economy after the withdrawal. Either way, it's probably going to be very hard to have a reasoned discussion, so I'll…

> It withdrew completely from Gaza in 2005, and gave full control over to the Palestinian Authority.

That's not true. Israel continues to control what can be imported to of exported from Gaza.

Re: Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

#122
post #24

Since when did hacker news became a source for politics? That is what the NY Times, Fox News,and CNN are for. Please don't let HN become one of those sites that entices hatred towards another country or a certain group of people. This post should be deleted as it has nothing to do with HN.

[deleted]

Re: Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

#123
post #2

off toppic. basically people installed solar panels, which require proper authorization, which they didn't have, so authorities are going to dismantle it. how this is news? just because it is in israel? so what? couldn't care less, this would happen in any part of the world, whatever. then article goes on talking about politics. why this was even posted on hacker news?

[deleted]

Re: Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

#124
post #99

I was born in Amsterdam and didnt understand this conflict, after seeing numerous documentaries i have an understanding what is going on. Basically zionists believe they are the chosen ones and that all other are inferiour. They believe the land is destined to them. Whatever the UN says. If you think about it this is a similar ideology than the naxis. And in fact the same methods are used. I recommend everybody to wa…

You are wrong on so many levels (and I'm not a jew). When zionism was created in the late 19th century, most jews in the world had NO interest in moving to Palestine or being zionists. Ask yourself the question: why if they believe that the land that is now Israel was theirs on the basis of religion, why were so many jews uninterested in pursuing this? Zionism was a reaction to the hundreds of years of anti-semitism jews had endure. Most jews rejected zionism (which was a nationalist movement not a religious movement). Most jews wanted to stay where they were and wanted to be part of the country in which they lived.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Zionism

The state of Israel arose from two factors. 1. The zionist movement which provided a narrative framework (historical, geographical, political, religious). 2. 70 years later, the attempt by the Nazis (and muslims like the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem) to wipe out jews. The Nazis wasnted the jews out of europe; fanatical muslims like the Mufti wanted them out of the middle east. (Some fanatical Nazis and some fanatical muslims wanted the jews wiped out. Some fanatical muslims still want the jews wiped out in toto). If you haven't read the Life of Mohammed (the first and most orthodox interpretation of Mohammed's life) you can read a condensed version here. http://www.scribd.com/doc/27156626/The-Earliest-Biography-of... You will see that already in the 7th century, Mohammed was exterminating jews.

The markings that the Nazis used for jews, originated in muslim countries in the middle ages, where jews (and christians) were made to wear special symbols to make them aware of their sub-human status in the eyes of muslims (dhimmitude). Later, christians in Spain (having pushed out the invading armies of islam after several hundred years of violent domination) also made jews wear stars, and that was adopted again by the Nazis. But the idea originated with the muslim concept of dhimmitude.

After what the Nazis did to jews in Europe, no wonder many jews embraced the idea of Israel as a safe(r) place for them to live (although millions of jews who went to Israel were actually kicked out of muslim north africa and Iraq, and all their wealth confiscated). If jews were going to face potential extermination in the future, then it made sense to defend themselves in their historical homeland (go on the Tunnel Tour in Jerusalem, and see the historical evidence for their great civilisation before the time of Herod).

Since you are Dutch, what do you make of the best film ever made by Dutch director Paul Verhoeven? I'm talking about Black Book, the film most Dutch people will not watch, because it shows the extent of the collaboration between Dutch people and the Nazis in the persecution of Dutch jews. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0389557/

And since the media goes on and on about "the Palestinian refugees", I suggest you read this, and see how the UN manages to manufacture a refugee crisis unlike no other in history: http://www.danielpipes.org/10695/unrwa-palestine-refugees

It seems to me that jews have suffered so much prejudice and hostility over the centuries, they have adopted far thicker skins than the rest of us. And I think that many of us non-jews are too ready to channel the history of jew-hatred from our the past of our cultures. And sadly, I think I was one of those people.

Re: Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Treaty of Sevres, which adopted the Balfour Declaration, was signed between the Allies and the Ottoman Empire, which, as you so pointed out, had sovereignty over the territory at the time.

Sevres was, like Versailles, the final treaty imposed on the losers by the victors. The INHABITANTS OF PALESTINE were not party to it. The Balfour Declaration was one of the most blatent acts of perfidy and outright dishonest double-crossing in modern history. At the SAME TIME that the British promised that they would uphold the rights of Arabs to self-determination - in return for the Arabs fighting (and defeating)…

Where did the "Palestinian arabs" come from? Arabia. What is their language? Arabic. What were they doing outside Arabia? Like the muslim conquest of north Africa, Spain, Persia, India, etc., the area of Palestine was taken by violent conquest. If Arabs had a right to be in Palestine by virtue of conquest, then Britain had the right (again by virtue of conquest) to do what it liked with the land. Why is it there is one standard for Arabs and a different standard for non-Arabs?

You try to use the narrative of colonialism, imperialism and racism, to obscure the fact that the islamic empire used weaponry and war to take control of almost every part of the world that is islamic (certainly all areas of africa, the middle east, europe and the indian subcontinent). And then it imposed its own forms of racism and colonialism on the subjugated people. Let's not even talk about the jews. Here's two books documenting the history of islamic slave-trading in Africa: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Legacy-Arab-Islam-Africa-Inter-relig... http://www.amazon.co.uk/Islams-Black-Slaves-History-Diaspora...

It seems it was every bit as bad as the racism and colonialism of the atlantic slave-trade. Even the UN expert panel on slavery in 1951 said that 1:20 people in Arabia was a slave. That was 1951. Three years after the establishment of the state of Israel.

Let's have some consistency here. At least the jews did not go into Palestine with weaponry and enslave the Arabs living there.

Re: Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

#126
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

This just sounds wrong to me. The territories under question are not occupied, but disputed. Each side has legitimate claims to them, and their status can only be resolved through negotiations, which is what the sides themselves agreed to in the Oslo Accords [1]. Furthermore, by what is the claim that Israel smashes every attempt of Palestinian economic development supported? Over a decade, Israel ceded territory and…

Well, there is strong evidence that "The Exodus" (forming the basis of the claim to Canaan) in fact did not happen. So if you take this into consideration, it is in fact an illegal occupation. So I would take the "legitimate claims" statement with a grain of salt (or more).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exodus#Archaeology

Re: Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

#127
post #117
post #14

This is totally irrelevant to HN and is one of the issues on the Internet most likely to start a flame war. Flagged. georgecmu you appear to have been around HN a good while, which surprises me as it's more than long enough to know this is totally inappropriate. Go to reddit.com/r/worldnews or one of the other relevant subreddits if you want to discuss this issue.

From the HN Guidelines[1]: "Please don't submit comments complaining that a submission is inappropriate for the site. If you think something is spam or offtopic, flag it by going to its page and clicking on the "flag" link. (Not all users will see this; there is a karma threshold.) If you flag something, please don't also comment that you did." [1] - http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Without standing up and saying "no", there is no communication to new users of the do's and don'ts of the site, which including overtly political articles like this.

Put another way, the number of people interested in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and its importance in world events, far exceeds the number of people, and import, of "hacker news", so were the site to open its gates completely, articles like this would completely overwhelm what we came here for.

Re: Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

#128
post #116
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>do you think a newly found state (~65 years) has any right to claim the territory it occupies (except of the might makes right variety)? Please explain to me, what makes Israel worse than all the other area changes after the world wars? Let's look at Karelia. Do you think the Finns should start bombarding St Petersburg with rocket artillery? (And would you expect such a mild response from Russia as Israeli has show…

Please explain to me, what makes Israel worse than all the other area changes after the world wars? Worse? Ok, I'll bite: It may not make it "worse" (sic) but it still doesn't make it right. Just because your form of abuse is not worse than others' does not make you right.

First, welcome to HN, since you created your first user account yesterday?

>>It may not make it "worse" (sic) but it still doesn't make it right.

The point was not right or wrong, I argued that there are totally different standards -- especially if you compare with the neighbouring countries which destroy many Palestinian refugees' lives to keep the question alive.

You didn't answer that.

See my other comment for more about the different standards: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3635315

But if you really want to discuss the "worse" part, why should the Israeli question be treated differently than all other land areas?

Edit: You don't want to "bite" on one of the fastest population increases on the planet called "genocide tactics"? If that is not hate propaganda, what is?!

Re: Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

#129
post #99

I was born in Amsterdam and didnt understand this conflict, after seeing numerous documentaries i have an understanding what is going on. Basically zionists believe they are the chosen ones and that all other are inferiour. They believe the land is destined to them. Whatever the UN says. If you think about it this is a similar ideology than the naxis. And in fact the same methods are used. I recommend everybody to wa…

You are wrong on so many levels (and I'm not a jew). When zionism was created in the late 19th century, most jews in the world had NO interest in moving to Palestine or being zionists. Ask yourself the question: why if they believe that the land that is now Israel was theirs on the basis of religion, why were so many jews uninterested in pursuing this? Zionism was a reaction to the hundreds of years of anti-semitism…

(Being Dutch) I've never heard of Dutch people not wanting to watch Black Book because it depicts the collaboration between Dutch people and the Nazi's. Claims like that don't do much for the credibility of the rest of your comment.

For more insight into media reporting about conflicts in the middle east i recommend http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hello-Everybody-Journalists-Search-M...

Re: Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

#130
post #106
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

M&S hawks Israeli produce: http://www.boycott-israel.co.uk/business-links/133-marks-and... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marks_%26_Spencer#cite_note-53 Unfortunately I can't refer you to a comprehensive information source on companies supporting Israel, but you might find more information by googling for "jews for boycotting israeli goods" or "boycott divestment sanctions" I did find references to several other compan…

Sigh... I flagged the article. Please keep stories like this off HN, it is bad enough with the language wars people. (I follow the Middle East conflict a bit, because it is informative to compare my Swedish media with BBC/NY Times. News items such as Pallywood or torture between Palestinian groups are literally censored.) The basic reason I started to care a bit is because I find it depressing when people hate and de…

How did we get from Palestine to the Muslim world? The article is about Israel and Palestine - nothing to do with the Muslim world.
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