Live data from Hacker News

It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

dancesafe.org

121–130 of 151 posts

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#121
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your link doesn't provide any evidence that the study was dubious. If anything the counter arguments seem dubious.

I was providing the link as context and a jumping off point for further reading, if you were curious (which is encouraged here). If you're looking for criticisms of Rat Park, I suggest starting with the "Criticisms" section on the Wikipedia article.

It was the criticisms section specifically that I found unconvincing.

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#122
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oxycodone was always known to be addictive. It’s right on the label from day one. “Also at the time of OxyContin’s approval, FDA product labeling warned of the danger of abuse of the drug and that crushing a controlled-release tablet followed by intravenous injection could result in a lethal overdose. There was no evidence to suggest at the time that crushing the controlled-release capsule followed by oral ingestion…

People are often taken in by the Big New Thing. That's why I have a default policy of skepticism towards pretty much everything.

“Covid” or the constant breathless reporting about every possible little thing over 3 years did this to me. Not rehash any of it but now 3 years later people like Zuck coming out and saying things like “Woops maybe we censored the wrong things and promoted also the wrong things. Woopsies.”

I thought I was world worn and tough.

Then came AI and I was again on the doom and gloom train. Then I had a moment, realized this just the new thing and dropped it down a few degrees.

What’s next?

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#123

The author's contention is that "addiction" is a result of circumstances, not of substances. He cites a rat study, and that's about it. I don't think that's correct. I do think that addiction results from circumstances, and it's impossible to quit if the circumstances are wrong; but depending on the substance, withdrawal can mean life-threatening seizures. Suggesting that the primary (author implies "sole") cause of…

My only encounter with drugs (pain killers) for the past 10 years was fentanyl as part of colonoscopy. That was no joke. Just one dose had noticeable effects for a few days later. I felt fucking great waking up from that colonoscopy but man, the day or two after sucked.

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#124
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He owned four cab licenses in Portland. Then Uber came in and shredded his retirement plan. I am sorry for your friend, but not for him losing out on his rent seeker plans.

The folks flagging your post would hunt the poor for sport if it was legally and socially acceptable.

There's nothing wrong with (and, in fact, it's virtuous) not spending money to consume today in order to have a better life tomorrow.

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#125
post #13

I've got a friend who recently was hospitalized for fentanyl addiction. Twenty years ago he was my first investor in my first startup. He was the guy that taught me about mediation. He was the first vegetarian I knew. He owned four cab licenses in Portland. Then Uber came in and shredded his retirement plan. The cab company forced him out so he wouldn't even capitalize on the partial ownership of the land they owned.…

Indeed, the idea that we shouldn't criminalize drugs because of some ludicrous personal autonomy argument is silly. It rests on a kind of extreme, libertarian view of human beings and human society in which human beings are construed as atomic, self-sufficient beings shouldering the entire burden of responsibility for their actions (we ARE responsible, but those who encourage or enable bad behavior share responsibili…

Yes, and we need to ban equasy as well, it harms people, predominantly the young, and provides no tangible benefits. Children are being harmed by this scourge!

Society will be much better off without it!

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/026988110809967...

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#126
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone is saying that, unless you think drugs materialize out of thin air? Because in reality, a drug user, drug seller and drug producer are all part of the exact same system, completely inseparable and entirely co-dependent on one another. Any differentiation we make is a fantasy we have devised to make ourselves feel better, like we're going after the "real" criminal, not the poor victim/user. The only way to st…

Decriminalization is the thing you're looking for -- making people free to sell whatever drugs they want, rather than something like legalizing, which keeps the black markets intact

Decriminalisation generally means taking away criminal penalties for possession but still having some penalty (usually the user must attend counselling), and keeping production and supply illegal.

Legalising is the 'full fat' solution which allows legal production and trade.

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#128
post #13

I've got a friend who recently was hospitalized for fentanyl addiction. Twenty years ago he was my first investor in my first startup. He was the guy that taught me about mediation. He was the first vegetarian I knew. He owned four cab licenses in Portland. Then Uber came in and shredded his retirement plan. The cab company forced him out so he wouldn't even capitalize on the partial ownership of the land they owned.…

So, here is my problem: if the sakler family or drug cartels deceived regarding the harmful and addictive nature of drugs, sure thing, hang them for murder! But if an adult human makes a conscious decision, being fully aware of the consequences then it that person's responsibility.

I think you should instead be angry at the government. Your friend should have been able to go to a facility that administers fentanyl or heroin safely while making available counseling and any other help that could be provided to him.

If there is a dosage for any substance where it can be administered without causing near-term death or irreparable physical damage, the government should either ignore it or intervene by implementing safe ways people can can consume these substances. You shouldn't need to go to a street dealer, even if you don't have a medical perscription they should let you get addicted and consume it if you choose to do so against all advice.

Millions die in the US every year because... I don't even know why? It sounds not right to treat people?

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever a large group of people really want something to be true, your Bayesian evidence threshold should increase significantly. IE cigarettes not causing cancer, glass of red wine a day, unleaded gasoline, caffeine has no negative effects, drugs are not addictive, you can eat as much as you want as long as no carbs.

What about unleaded gasoline puts it on this list? What about it do people really want to be true?

Sorry, meant leaded. The dangers were known very early-on but it was such a great way to increase octane rating that many including regulatory agencies allowed themselves to be led into wishful thinking.

It's interesting we're still using leaded when it comes to aviation. The FAA has been quite slow in approving alternatives.

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#130
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My family member died from his addiction and I'm still angry at him. He made several decades of selfish, disastrous choices. He had every advantage in the world and squandered it all. I'm angry we don't do more to fight these drugs. Drug dealing is very much a violent crime, it killed my cousin. The popular culture that celebrates drugs and dealers. Plenty of blame all around but central is the person who decides to…

I mostly agree with you. But when your doctor is telling you to take some 'medicine', and that is what makes you addicted it's not completly in your hands anymore.

Of course it is. Doctors work for you and offer advice. They can't force you to take medicine unless you're involuntarily commited.

Do your own research. Get a second opinion. Etc. I rarely end up taking medication that's prescribed to me and overall I think I'm the better for it.

Post reply on HN