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The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

phys.org

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Re: The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

#121

Post by otabdeveloper4 »

mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #68
voz_ wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not taking your bait, because to quote you: > Science doesn't have some super clear, strict, reductive definition like the "scientific method" you may have been taught in school. This is peak anti-intellectualism, this is the exact kind of school bashing that Isaac Asimov warned us about. There is no definition of it "in my mind", this is not about opinion vs opinion here, friend.

So I'm supposed to divine what you're thinking because you think it's bait? I ask, because usually, when I hear people say "hurr durr scientific method", the defition that comes out of their mouth excludes almost all of science except 2 or 3 fields. And I'm not interested in having a discussion with a silly disagreement in terminology at the core. I'm not sure where you're getting all your veiled insults from. I'm no…

Well, yes, biology is not a science, for example.

(But linguistics definitely is.)

We also have things like computer "science", library "science" and military "science".

Just because it's a "science" in common parlance doesn't mean it actually is.

Re: The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

#122

Post by Communitivity »

ShadowBanThis01 wrote: post #111
jcranmer wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Mayan calendrical system is the most complex to have ever been used. To write a full date in a Classical Mayan site, you need to include: * The current date in the 365-day solar calendar (18 months of 20 days + 5 extracalendrical days) * The current date in the 260-day ritual calendar (13 "months" of 20 days, the months don't work like regular months we're used to) * The "long count" date, i.e., the number of day…

I studied with one of the top Mayan scholars in North America, and learned that the 260-day Mayan calendar was correlated to the human gestational period. So this is interesting: "They also note that the number of days (16,380) used in the math happens to be a multiple of 260, which means that 20 rounds of 819-day periods match with the Tzolk'in—the general Maya calendar."

Interesting coincidence, 16380 is only 4 off from 2^14 (16384).

Re: The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

#123

Post by mtlmtlmtlmtl »

maweki wrote: post #109
hackernewds wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're giving a racist and close-minded Bishop too much credit IMHO

Or you're attributing malice when stupidity suffices. Hanlon's razor.

Hanlon's razor is great and all. But sometimes there really is just a lot of malice and stupidity at the same time.

Re: The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

#124

Post by mtlmtlmtlmtl »

labster wrote: post #95
tshaddox wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That quote still shocks me every time I read it. Such depravity.

Dude, those indios were gonna go to hell if they kept reading those books. Letting them be tortured for all eternity would be truly depraved. I think the word you were looking for is “narrow-minded”. But even then, Landa thought he had gone through enough to see that there was nothing of value in the Maya books. Even tried to learn the language a little. He just didn’t have the mental and cultural framework to care a…

You know they tortured people right? This wasn't some soft-minded priest who just wanted to save them from the devil, by offering them waffles and a nice little chat.

Re: The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

#125

Post by swores »

seszett wrote: post #118
johnchristopher wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, there's a Tintin story with the same setting but a different outcome in the temple of the sun comic https://i.pinimg.com/736x/12/98/cb/1298cb768ee8ba2efbe1a1175... and https://www.artcurial.com/sites/default/files/lots-images/20...

Tintin was in Peru with the Inca though, not the Maya. Although maybe the Inca also knew how to calculate eclipses, I don't know.

In the Tintin story he tricks them into thinking he could control the sun because they (the Incas in the story) didn't know about eclipses.

Re: The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

#126

Post by stephen_g »

eru wrote: post #73
dmbche wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly recommend looking for a protected night sky zone near you and going to see it at least once - it really is nothing that pictures can translate! https://www.darksky.org/our-work/conservation/idsp/finder/

Interesting website. The closest dark sky place I can find on their map is about 2,630km (or 63h drive according to Google Maps) away from me.

Not sure what their criteria is, they don't have any marked in my state (Queensland, Australia) even though there would probably (seriously) be an area bigger than the whole of France here out west where you can see the milky way with your bare eyes.

Re: The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

#127

Post by retrac »

fjfaase wrote: post #3

This implies that the Mayan must have been recording the positions of the planets with great accuracy over a rather long period of time, probably spanning several generations.

They were. The Mayans were perhaps the most consistent and precise, of all people doing astronomy, at least before telescopes.

Unlike with almost all other ancient calendars, the alignment of the Mayan calendar to our own is known quite exactly. Scholars have compiled lists with all the eclipses, astronomical records, etc. known from the Mesoamerican writings. There's only one correlation that makes sense, and it aligns with basically everything. Lunar phase, planetary locations, recent eclipses, even the records carved in wood which can be radiocarbon dated (carved on wood that died within the years expected for what's written on it).

We can, of course, never really be certain, but it's likely correct that Pakal the Great died on 9.12.11.5.18 -- in August 683, probably on the 29th.

With Ancient Egypt, the window of uncertainty with dates in the Middle Kingdom, is about 20 years, and closer to 100 with the Old Kingdom. Nor do we know precisely when Nineveh fell, and that event is recorded in the records of multiple cultures.

Re: The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

#128

Post by blacksqr »

dmbche wrote: post #11
readthenotes1 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those planets are much easier to see without light pollution. All but Neptune* can be seen by the naked eye. (Shamelessly abusing the classification of Pluto as a dwarf planet here to exclude it from the conversation). Uranus: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/nov/07/starwatch-op...

You remind me that I wanted to book an airBnB in one of the parks near me, they have an observatory and as such the sky is legally required to be untainted - I haven't seen the milky way in almost 10 years, I can't imagine seeing the stars every night.

Imagine that before the industrial revolution, on clear moonless nights the Milky Way would cast a shadow.

Re: The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

#129

Post by mdhen »

vertis wrote: post #113
hammyhavoc wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy shit. Thank you for bringing this up, I'd wondered for ~15 years what my uncle was reading at his desk one time when I visited, but only ever remembered the cover.

You should definitely stop everything and read it.

it's his best book for sure. Cryptonomicon is my favorite, but Anathem is his best, no question.

Re: The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

#130

Post by datavirtue »

jcranmer wrote: post #71
fjfaase wrote: post #3

This implies that the Mayan must have been recording the positions of the planets with great accuracy over a rather long period of time, probably spanning several generations.

The Mayan calendrical system is the most complex to have ever been used. To write a full date in a Classical Mayan site, you need to include: * The current date in the 365-day solar calendar (18 months of 20 days + 5 extracalendrical days) * The current date in the 260-day ritual calendar (13 "months" of 20 days, the months don't work like regular months we're used to) * The "long count" date, i.e., the number of day…

Hopefully they stored all that in UTC.
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