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The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

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Re: The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

#71
post #3

This implies that the Mayan must have been recording the positions of the planets with great accuracy over a rather long period of time, probably spanning several generations.

The Mayan calendrical system is the most complex to have ever been used. To write a full date in a Classical Mayan site, you need to include:

* The current date in the 365-day solar calendar (18 months of 20 days + 5 extracalendrical days)

* The current date in the 260-day ritual calendar (13 "months" of 20 days, the months don't work like regular months we're used to)

* The "long count" date, i.e., the number of days elapsed from August 11, 3114 BC in proleptic Gregorian

* A 9 day cycle (roughly equivalent to our weekday)

* The date of the current lunar month

* The length of the current lunar month (29 or 30 days)

* A counter to keep track of where the lunar month is in terms of 29 or 30 day months

* The 819-day cycle, discussed in this article.

That is a sheer amount of information to be repeated (dates were the first aspect of Maya script to be deciphered, simply because a very large fraction of the text on stelae at Mayan are just these dates), and probably one of the reasons for this complexity is a way of showing off astronomical prowess (there are actually a few different correlations to lunar months in use at the same time, depending on which major polity's tables you wanted to follow).

Of particular note is that the main long-distance counting is the Long Count, which is a literal count of days elapsed since creation. There's no evidence of regnal dating system, which is very unusual compared to Eurasian calendars where maintaining dates across different kings is more of an occasional pastime rather than common dating format. This counting of days makes it extremely easy to work out long-distance periodic relationships. Given that we already have hundreds of years of date keeping being recorded before the 819-day cycle appears (IIRC, it's a late innovation in Classic Maya), it's virtually certain that reliable records spanning centuries could have been collected by the Classic Maya.

Re: The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

#72
post #52
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wider your horizon a bit. By and large, the world is getting better and better for more and more people. To take your first example: American political theatre is small fry compared to billions lifting themselves out of abject poverty.

The world is getting better (for many) but it's also getting weirder and crazier. Both can be true. I have this hypothesis that the weirdness and craziness is a symptom of early stage post-scarcity. Scarcity constrains things. Without it we will just spread out across the state space of possibilities like an oil slick, doing all kinds of insane and crazy things for increasingly complex and bizarre reasons. The more r…

> The world is getting better (for many) but it's also getting weirder and crazier. Both can be true.

Yes, that is true. I was taking your use of 'shitty timeline' to mean 'worse'.

I'm not sure it makes sense to talk about post-scarcity as a monolith.

To give an example: Lamborghinis are still very much scarce; but drinking water out of the tap is so cheap in developed countries that we are living in a post-scarcity society for that resource. (I specify 'drinking water', because for industrial or agricultural applications water is still very much a constrained resource.)

Another example is Internet bandwidth for text-only browsing of eg Wikipedia: it's too cheap to matter. Internet bandwidth for watching Netflix isn't quite there yet.

Re: The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

#73
post #51
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I've never seen the milky way in the sky with my own eyes.

I highly recommend looking for a protected night sky zone near you and going to see it at least once - it really is nothing that pictures can translate! https://www.darksky.org/our-work/conservation/idsp/finder/

Interesting website.

The closest dark sky place I can find on their map is about 2,630km (or 63h drive according to Google Maps) away from me.

Re: The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

#74
post #62
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a miracle that India was spared this fate. All thanks to the East India Company being a soulless megacorp devoted to profits instead of religious zeal like the other colonists.

Even before East India Company, India faced several outsider attacks. From Alexander the Great to various Khan's, then Mughals, then Portuguese etc. Some important Indian texts were burned/destoryed in these attacks, For eg., the Nalanda University Still, a lot of texts remained both in written format and in Oral format.

>Nalanda University.

I feel like the role of Nalanda in Indian history has been greatly exaggerated.

The education system was very decentralized, and that's really why most things have survived.

There is not much evidence of concrete knowledge/resources being lost at Nalanda.

Re: The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

#75
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not taking your bait, because to quote you: > Science doesn't have some super clear, strict, reductive definition like the "scientific method" you may have been taught in school. This is peak anti-intellectualism, this is the exact kind of school bashing that Isaac Asimov warned us about. There is no definition of it "in my mind", this is not about opinion vs opinion here, friend.

> There is no definition of it "in my mind" Where do you think definitions reside?

Ask Plato

Re: The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

#76
post #73
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly recommend looking for a protected night sky zone near you and going to see it at least once - it really is nothing that pictures can translate! https://www.darksky.org/our-work/conservation/idsp/finder/

Interesting website. The closest dark sky place I can find on their map is about 2,630km (or 63h drive according to Google Maps) away from me.

I'm realising that they are open to people reporting dark skies near them, and even offer a way to so a dark sky census.

The last time I saw the milky way, I was in a cheap campsite near the ocean in Ireland, which (of course) isn't recorded on the site.

Hopefully you have good dark sky closer than 63h drive away!

Re: The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

#77
post #3

This implies that the Mayan must have been recording the positions of the planets with great accuracy over a rather long period of time, probably spanning several generations.

The Mayan calendrical system is the most complex to have ever been used. To write a full date in a Classical Mayan site, you need to include: * The current date in the 365-day solar calendar (18 months of 20 days + 5 extracalendrical days) * The current date in the 260-day ritual calendar (13 "months" of 20 days, the months don't work like regular months we're used to) * The "long count" date, i.e., the number of day…

I really wonder what kind of organizational structure the Mayan astrologers had in order to develop and propagate this knowledge in their society over generations. Getting vibes of Neal Stephenson's Anathem.

Re: The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

#78
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a nonsense definition. Science absolutely must follow the scientific method. What you are talking about is natural philosophy and protosciences - its the difference between alchemy and chemistry - which is all the difference in the world.

There are different scientific methods and different senses that need to be used for abstract topics like Alchemy. Just because most of the worlds population lost the ability to use these other senses to understand the science behind Alchemy does not make it any less important. What you are referring to in your one-size-fits-all "Scientific Method" is called Scientism. A belief, just like religion, that the only meth…

If there aren’t testable explanations or predictions, it’s not science. Otherwise the word carries no meaning.

Re: The Mayan calendar might represent a longer timescale than previously considered

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's like if we had the same TV show every night for our whole life, i think we would start to notice some patterns

TV show that rained fireballs at your ancestors at random intervals...

It's funny and terrifying at the same time imagining our tv throwing fireballs randomly while watching it.

Thanks for the chuckle.

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