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European DSA Recipients of Services Report

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Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#121

Post by coldtea »

Twisell wrote: post #98
eptcyka wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, sort of how Microsoft could argue that there exists two separate markets for Windows running on stationary compute devices and Windows for mobile devices. Except this is a sad joke and letting Apple get away with two devices running the same OS would be playing into their hand that they stacked years ago when they split them off. What is up with the enormous amount of people on this site who are inexplicably ap…

This is hilarious considering that the classical, yet irrational, fear amongst long time MacOS users is that Apple might be secretly planing an OS convergence. This is usually perceived as doomsday for MacOS and have been feared by some for up to 15 years. You are basically stating the opposite while completely ignoring the actual complexity of such an hypothetical merge for codebases that forked 15 years ago. They s…

The OSes have been the same since forever. It's just the same macOS kernel, filesystem, and basic userland with different UI and a few different core libs (given the different form factor and hardware features needed to hook to).

Most of the same people that fear the convergence also ask for "iPadOS" and "iOS" to be more like the Mac (add mouse support, multitask like the Mac, and so on).

So what they do fear is the mythical "dumbing down" of Mac, as in the outcry when Logic got a different skin, and everybody losts their minds as if it's now "just Garageband Pro" (meanwhile it has never been more powerful). Same for FCP (where a few features were lost due to the rewrite, not for any dumbing down).

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#122

Post by graftak »

tpmx wrote: post #23
CostcoFanboy wrote: post #2

I'm surprised there are more Apple TV users than Apple watch users. It always felt like a fairly niched device. On a somewhat unrelated side-note, as a hardcore Plex user for the last 5-6 years, Apple TV has been an amazing Plex client. Second only to a Nvidia Shield Pro downgraded to 8.2.3 firmware. Honestly with the quality of their TV boxes, screens and the "ecosystem", I'm kind of surprised they didn't dive into…

Apple TV (the hardware, not the streaming service) is so underappreciated. The smooth task switching alone makes it worth a buy. I think it's severely undermarketed. And the old touch remote that so many people hated.. I like it so much. (Haven't tried the newest remote that has a combined d-pad/touch area because of troglodyte customer feedback ( ;) ) but I suspect I will hate it since the touchpad area is so much s…

Apple TV+ the streaming service too is under-appreciated, Severance is one of the absolute best tv work out there yet nobody’s talking about it.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#123

Post by derefr »

shagie wrote: post #114
nextos wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope multiple stores shake a bit the iPad ecosystem. It's a great device and, unlike in mobile, there's no competition. Android tablets are pretty bad. Google dropped the ball, although they seem to be coming back. iPads could be fantastic devices to program in, but they are quite crippled by limitations. Boutique software companies, such as Panic or Omni Group, plus other developers could really extend the ecosyst…

I believe that Google's ball drop with tablets has to do with that the phone manufacturers that Google partners with for Android are not as interested in tablets (likely using wifi) as they are with phones. Combine that with a lack of standardization and lack of focus for the tablet form factor... and that's what you've got. The iPad, on the other hand was the original "this is what we want". The iPad was the first t…

They've been trying to make the iPad since the Apple Newton. The tech to do it just wasn't there.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#124

Post by derefr »

daydream wrote: post #119
nextos wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope multiple stores shake a bit the iPad ecosystem. It's a great device and, unlike in mobile, there's no competition. Android tablets are pretty bad. Google dropped the ball, although they seem to be coming back. iPads could be fantastic devices to program in, but they are quite crippled by limitations. Boutique software companies, such as Panic or Omni Group, plus other developers could really extend the ecosyst…

> Boutique software companies, such as Panic or Omni Group, plus other developers could really extend the ecosystem beyond content consumption and simple document creation tasks. If that’s the case why hasn’t Omni or Panic written these apps already? The 30% cut Apple takes is indeed large. But any new store will likely attract only a small fraction of all App Store customers. Can you help me understand this better?

Owning an iPad, there's one thing I know it's missing that makes me feel that I can't really use it seriously for development. And that thing is that you can't publish an iPadOS app on the App Store that allows you to compile and run native code within the app. So while there are "cloud IDEs" for iPadOS; and there are local IDEs for interpreted languages (or which do sandboxed interpretation of otherwise-compiled languages, like the Swift Playground) for iPadOS; there are no local IDEs for iPadOS that actually compile and execute native code.

AFAICT, this restriction (and the one where no app but Safari can use use the Webkit JavaScriptCore JIT) is in place, because the alternative — allowing arbitrarily-badly-coded apps to do "dynamic native code injection" — would be a near-infinite wellspring of jailbreak exploit vectors.

But, insofar as Apple's own semi-manual QA process is required to preventing the publication of apps that include this kind of "dynamic native code injection", a third-party App Store would presumably not inherently have this same restriction (although individual third-party App Stores might.)

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#125

Post by [deleted] »

apetresc wrote: post #40
nottorp wrote: post #34

> Without prejudice to further consideration of the legal characterisation, Apple views each version of the App Store as a distinct online platform under the DSA, and only the iOS App Store may qualify as a VLOP. LOL LMAO ROFL. I really hope there is some EU directive that this is breaking so they can be fined just for being asses.

Given that the definition of a VLOP is >45M MAU, and the iOS store is the only one that's even remotely close to being over that, what do you object with in this characterization? Also you left out the very next sentence , which completely reverses the interpretation you're trying to imply: > Nonetheless, Apple intends, on an entirely voluntary basis, to align each of the existing versions of the App Store (including…

[deleted]

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#126

Post by bhawks »

shagie wrote: post #114
nextos wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope multiple stores shake a bit the iPad ecosystem. It's a great device and, unlike in mobile, there's no competition. Android tablets are pretty bad. Google dropped the ball, although they seem to be coming back. iPads could be fantastic devices to program in, but they are quite crippled by limitations. Boutique software companies, such as Panic or Omni Group, plus other developers could really extend the ecosyst…

I believe that Google's ball drop with tablets has to do with that the phone manufacturers that Google partners with for Android are not as interested in tablets (likely using wifi) as they are with phones. Combine that with a lack of standardization and lack of focus for the tablet form factor... and that's what you've got. The iPad, on the other hand was the original "this is what we want". The iPad was the first t…

The desktop OEMs lament their inability to differentiate their hardware offerings. I had always wondered why some of them didn't see the opportunity to enter the tablet space on Android as a path to differentiation. The only risk I would imagine would be the potential cannibalization of their laptop lines, but that really shouldn't stop them.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#127

Post by shagie »

bhawks wrote: post #126
shagie wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that Google's ball drop with tablets has to do with that the phone manufacturers that Google partners with for Android are not as interested in tablets (likely using wifi) as they are with phones. Combine that with a lack of standardization and lack of focus for the tablet form factor... and that's what you've got. The iPad, on the other hand was the original "this is what we want". The iPad was the first t…

The desktop OEMs lament their inability to differentiate their hardware offerings. I had always wondered why some of them didn't see the opportunity to enter the tablet space on Android as a path to differentiation. The only risk I would imagine would be the potential cannibalization of their laptop lines, but that really shouldn't stop them.

The cannibalization is one part of it (compare Apple - https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-on-cannibalization-201... and https://www.imd.org/research-knowledge/articles/apples-dwind... -- Jobs reportedly said “If you don’t cannibalize yourself, someone else will.”)

The other part of it is that android has been poorly designed for the tablet interface. For an OEM to try to make a tablet out of android they would have to invest significant software development resources into what would amount to be a fork of android (compare Amazon Fire tablets). While they likely have some software developers, they probably don't have enough to maintain that amount of development on android (and always being behind with Google preferring phones).

... and even if they were close to parity with Android (and the challenge that would imply at trying to keep their devices up to date - with the largest investment customers would expect them to last longer) you would still have difficulties with the developers for Android aren't making things that fit well in the tablet form factor (Amazon was trying to bribe/incentivize developers to write for its form factor - https://readwrite.com/amazon-give-developers-rewards-build-f... ).

All that means that unless Google wants to do it and you're willing to go head to head with Amazon its probably not that good of an investment of time, reputation, and resources.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#130

Post by MBCook »

jsnell wrote: post #43
MBCook wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iTunes and Apple TV aren’t app stores. The Apple TV App Store is listed.

That explanation does not work. The DSA isn't a law restricted to App Stores. Also, podcasts and ebooks are not apps, but they listed their ebook store and podcast subscriptions platform in this disclosure. Why not the music store, the TV series and movie subscription service?

Apple says this is a list of their App Store user counts, and the things they’ve listed are their app stores.

Perhaps they’ll release those other numbers in a different document.

I can’t say why Apple appears to be doing things this way. I was only pointing out why Apple may not have included them here.

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