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European DSA Recipients of Services Report

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Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#111

Post by brookst »

downWidOutaFite wrote: post #104
Twisell wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is hilarious considering that the classical, yet irrational, fear amongst long time MacOS users is that Apple might be secretly planing an OS convergence. This is usually perceived as doomsday for MacOS and have been feared by some for up to 15 years. You are basically stating the opposite while completely ignoring the actual complexity of such an hypothetical merge for codebases that forked 15 years ago. They s…

Another thing that's hilarious[1] is in the Epic lawsuit Apple wanted to define the market as big as possible while here they define it as small as possible. [1] not actually hilarious

Almost like the word "market" can mean different things in different contexts. Some people define it as the place you get produce... crazy!

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#112

Post by Smoosh »

zamnos wrote: post #54
fsckboy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> iPad App Store is distinct from the iOS App Store the whole idea that applications written in software shouldn't handle screensize differences (and dynamic changes) intelligently is just so broken. I get that feeling in the pit of my stomach like "who let these people in? is the door wide open out there?" i mean, to each their own, that's just me, but that's how I feel software should be written, and while we're at…

The iPad store didn't break away from the iOS store until 2019. The original app store came out in 2008, eleven years earlier. While you have as certain point, the division is meant to highlight apps which treat the iPad as a mini laptop, with a keyboard and pencil, vs just a bigger phone. If you've ever coded a website to resize, that's child's play. to actually get an app working properly across both sizes, you've…

> you've got to put in significant work for each

Even Apple themselves couldn't expend the effort to make an iPad version of their vaunted new Classical music app: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2023/03/apple-music-classical...

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#113

Post by brookst »

wildredkraut wrote: post #42
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That won't work on court. How do you know? If there was no chance of it working, you would think Apple's lawyers would have said so.

There is a reason why they bend over for EU's DSA. They can view the stores as they want, but they know that per law they aren't distinct online platforms, as long their Userbase, AppleIDs, AppleID Backend, Hosting Services, Databases, iCloud Services, Apps, Games and In-App Purchases are cross-wired and shared between all Apple devices/stores. The DSA sees it as one(1) united Online Platform and would not care for A…

> This is just the typical Apple FUD

Thanks for including that prominently enough it made it easy to skip the comment without reading.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#114

Post by shagie »

nextos wrote: post #78
rnk wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree. This is just big companies artificially separating their market segments to argue against too large of a market, and preserve their enormous profits with their huge percentage take. The world would be much better off with multiple stores. It will take legal action by the eu, and it will be hard, these rich companies are very influential. In the us we have too much capture of federal politicans, I…

I hope multiple stores shake a bit the iPad ecosystem. It's a great device and, unlike in mobile, there's no competition. Android tablets are pretty bad. Google dropped the ball, although they seem to be coming back. iPads could be fantastic devices to program in, but they are quite crippled by limitations. Boutique software companies, such as Panic or Omni Group, plus other developers could really extend the ecosyst…

I believe that Google's ball drop with tablets has to do with that the phone manufacturers that Google partners with for Android are not as interested in tablets (likely using wifi) as they are with phones. Combine that with a lack of standardization and lack of focus for the tablet form factor... and that's what you've got.

The iPad, on the other hand was the original "this is what we want". The iPad was the first thing that Apple was trying to make.

> Work on the iPad itself actually traces back to 2004, when designer Jonathan Ive and others crafted a new tablet prototype. The product was originally supposed to ship before the iPhone, but the company came to decide the latter was more important, premiering it in 2007 using similar technologies.

( https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/04/03/a-brief-history-o... )

So from the very beginning with the iDevice, the idea of different form factors and sizes was part of how it was written rather than as a phone that grew bigger.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#115

Post by lelandfe »

Twisell wrote: post #98
eptcyka wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, sort of how Microsoft could argue that there exists two separate markets for Windows running on stationary compute devices and Windows for mobile devices. Except this is a sad joke and letting Apple get away with two devices running the same OS would be playing into their hand that they stacked years ago when they split them off. What is up with the enormous amount of people on this site who are inexplicably ap…

This is hilarious considering that the classical, yet irrational, fear amongst long time MacOS users is that Apple might be secretly planing an OS convergence. This is usually perceived as doomsday for MacOS and have been feared by some for up to 15 years. You are basically stating the opposite while completely ignoring the actual complexity of such an hypothetical merge for codebases that forked 15 years ago. They s…

Catalyst, fka Marzipan, definitely did not help alleviate the concerns that Apple would prefer for the operating systems to be unified.

Them pulling ill-suited features over to macOS, like the Control Center[0] and toggles, also give me pause.

[0] Which lives in the menubar, lacks any keyboard accessibility, and introduced bizarre new interface behaviors, e.g. multi-step dropdowns where you click inside the dropdown to navigate back. Ugh.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#116

Post by anonymouse008 »

izacus wrote: post #91
Jtsummers wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of Watch apps also get installed through the attached iPhone when you install the associated iPhone app. I think it was the default, I turned it off, to have "Automatic Downloads" on for apps. So if that's still the default (or the present setting for the watch) then if you download Strava for iPhone you'll get Strava on your Apple Watch without ever touching the Watch App Store.

But it's still Watch App Store which installed and delivered the app right? And the developers must use it to give you the application? Just because you didn't open the UI it doesn't mean the developers weren't forced to go through that app store to reach you.

This is the disingenuous piece if so - as in if the target is non companion iOS, then it’s watchOS App Store? That breaks the logic of the rest of the data disclosure

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#117

Post by [deleted] »

brookst wrote: post #111
downWidOutaFite wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another thing that's hilarious[1] is in the Epic lawsuit Apple wanted to define the market as big as possible while here they define it as small as possible. [1] not actually hilarious

Almost like the word "market" can mean different things in different contexts. Some people define it as the place you get produce... crazy!

[deleted]

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#118

Post by mostlysimilar »

fsckboy wrote: post #32
jsnell wrote: post #10

> iOS App Store: 101 million > iPadOS App Store: 23 million Asserting that the iPad App Store is distinct from the iOS App Store - and totally isn't in scope for the regulations - is certainly a bold strategy. I wonder why iTunes and Apple TV+ aren't included, and why Podcasts is only counting paid subscribers. Is there some obvious reason why these kinds of services would be out of scope?

> iPad App Store is distinct from the iOS App Store the whole idea that applications written in software shouldn't handle screensize differences (and dynamic changes) intelligently is just so broken. I get that feeling in the pit of my stomach like "who let these people in? is the door wide open out there?" i mean, to each their own, that's just me, but that's how I feel software should be written, and while we're at…

To each their own indeed. I think mobile responsive design has crippled the desktop experience of software, particularly on the web.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#119

Post by daydream »

nextos wrote: post #78
rnk wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree. This is just big companies artificially separating their market segments to argue against too large of a market, and preserve their enormous profits with their huge percentage take. The world would be much better off with multiple stores. It will take legal action by the eu, and it will be hard, these rich companies are very influential. In the us we have too much capture of federal politicans, I…

I hope multiple stores shake a bit the iPad ecosystem. It's a great device and, unlike in mobile, there's no competition. Android tablets are pretty bad. Google dropped the ball, although they seem to be coming back. iPads could be fantastic devices to program in, but they are quite crippled by limitations. Boutique software companies, such as Panic or Omni Group, plus other developers could really extend the ecosyst…

> Boutique software companies, such as Panic or Omni Group, plus other developers could really extend the ecosystem beyond content consumption and simple document creation tasks.

If that’s the case why hasn’t Omni or Panic written these apps already?

The 30% cut Apple takes is indeed large. But any new store will likely attract only a small fraction of all App Store customers.

Can you help me understand this better?

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#120

Post by thoughtpalette »

theseanstewart wrote: post #6
CostcoFanboy wrote: post #2

I'm surprised there are more Apple TV users than Apple watch users. It always felt like a fairly niched device. On a somewhat unrelated side-note, as a hardcore Plex user for the last 5-6 years, Apple TV has been an amazing Plex client. Second only to a Nvidia Shield Pro downgraded to 8.2.3 firmware. Honestly with the quality of their TV boxes, screens and the "ecosystem", I'm kind of surprised they didn't dive into…

> Second only to a Nvidia Shield Pro downgraded to 8.2.3 firmware. What's special about 8.2.3 vs the latest firmware? I've only owned my Shield for a few months so I'm curious what I may be missing.

Class action suit against Nvidia for effectively removing local Gamestream from the Shield. Mine's a $200 brick now.

[0]: https://www.classaction.org/news/nvidia-hit-with-class-actio...

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