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Wells Fargo to pay $3.7B for mistreating customers

finance.yahoo.com

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Re: Wells Fargo to pay $3.7B for mistreating customers

#121

Post by klyrs »

bumby wrote: post #108
klyrs wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are greater sins: we have a military, you know. Raising a child means teaching nuance in ethics. I've had similar conversations with my kid, arising from questions like "why do robbers exist?" "Why are some people homeless?" "Why do murderers exist?" Ethics is full of gray areas, and refusing to engage in hard conversations increases the risk that your kid will make the wrong call if they ever find themselves i…

I agree that they main point of ethics is providing a decision framework in the grey areas (if they were clear-cut, there would be no discussion). But that seems off-place here. It leads to the question about "when is it okay to steal?" There's an obvious "defense of necessity", but that doesn't stop at stealing someone's means to a living. If it's legal to steal food in a disaster, it doesn't matter if that food com…

It's important to discuss alternatives, teach problem solving, etc. But at the end of the day, teaching your kid to starve to death because stealing is always wrong is only going to erode their trust in you.

This isn't something that I brought up with my kid, btw. He led the conversation, he was asking honest and innocent questions. Shutting the door in his face loses the opportunity to discuss nuanced ethics when he's receptive to the conversation. If I drive, then it's just an abstract lecture.

Re: Wells Fargo to pay $3.7B for mistreating customers

#122

Post by [deleted] »

mbg721 wrote: post #31
toomuchtodo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was unable to obtain a government backed mortgage for a decade because LexisNexis Risk Solutions was reporting a judgement inaccurately on my risk profile that they would not remove until I had a lawyer file suit against them and notified the CFPB. I received a $600 check as part of a $21M class action settlement [1]. I was lucky, and had the means to obtain creative financing (non-QM) when needed. Others are not s…

I agree 100%; what can a layman like me do to fix it?

[deleted]

Re: Wells Fargo to pay $3.7B for mistreating customers

#123

Post by klyrs »

LastTrain wrote: post #110
willcipriano wrote: post #13

My father taught me that if you are going to steal from someone you never steal his tools or his vehicle, because those are the means he uses to make a living and you dont want to be responsible for his kids going hungry. Given this history of Wells Fargo this isn't a one off accident. It's often said but people really need to go to prison for this, not club fed either, send them to be with the other carjackers.

My dad told me not to steal.

No post body was provided.

Re: Wells Fargo to pay $3.7B for mistreating customers

#124

Post by nequo »

bb88 wrote: post #116
nequo wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That money will just go into the treasury. My reading of the article is different. This reads as though $2bn of the $3.7bn was to go directly to the consumers whom Wells Fargo harmed: a $3.7 billion settlement with federal regulators, including a record $1.7 billion fine [...] The agreement with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau includes more than $2 billion in “redress to consumers” [...] The CFPB is orderi…

And that will be pennies on the dollar for what consumers lost. There should be 1:1 redress + damages. Not just "refunds".

I agree that there is a lot more harm caused than the sheer monetary side of it. Don't do business with Wells Fargo if you can avoid it. But as far as the scale of the redress goes, the CFPB announcement[1] has an assessment of the total harm caused:

  Wells Fargo had systematic failures in its servicing of automobile loans that resulted in $1.3 billion in harm across more than 11 million accounts.
Also a detailed list of how much Wells Fargo is to pay for which group of harmed consumers:

  Specifically, Wells Fargo will have to pay:

    More than $1.3 billion in consumer redress for affected auto lending accounts.
    More than $500 million in consumer redress for affected deposit accounts, including $205 million for illegal surprise overdraft fees.
    Nearly $200 million in consumer redress for affected mortgage servicing accounts.
[1] https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/newsroom/cfpb-order...

Re: Wells Fargo to pay $3.7B for mistreating customers

#125

Post by [deleted] »

conductr wrote: post #93

> “Wells Fargo’s rinse-repeat cycle of violating the law has harmed millions of American families,” CFPB Director Rohit Chopra said in the statement. “The CFPB is ordering Wells Fargo to refund billions of dollars to consumers across the country. This is an important initial step for accountability and long-term reform of this repeat offender.” > Shares of the company rose 0.7% to $42.11 at 9:57 a.m. in New York. Soo…

[deleted]

Re: Wells Fargo to pay $3.7B for mistreating customers

#127

Post by kelseyfrog »

LastTrain wrote: post #109
kodyo wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did a thought experiment. If FDIC and NCUA deposit insurance didn't exist, would I trust a bank of a credit union more with my deposits? I landed with credit unions due to the overt malfeasance of banks. The FDIC exists to keep banks afloat, because they're untrustworthy on their own.

If everyone moved their money to credit unions, they'd become just as bad as banks.

I don't consider size to be the primary determiner of how banks operate re: good or bad. I consider the ownership model to primarily determine incentives and behavior. They are, of course, are not uncorrelated, but rather when attributing primary cause, I see credit unions incentives aligned with their clientele because they are one and the same. Whereas banks have a larger discrepancy between owners and customers.

Re: Wells Fargo to pay $3.7B for mistreating customers

#128

Post by twblalock »

johnny_b_g wrote: post #111
_skel wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Example number ten thousand of why the "vote with your dollars and don't do business with them" defense of capitalism fails completely in practice. Example number ten thousand of how everything bad is blamed on "capitalism." It's a lazy, shallow, knee-jerk reaction that is plaguing this site and ought to be forbidden by the guidelines. When you apply for a mortgage you are informed in advance that it might be sold.…

> "When you apply for a mortgage you are informed in advance that it might be sold. In fact, when I got mine I was told it would be sold. This information is given to every applicant as a legal requirement and people who don't like it don't need to go through with the application." Ah yes, the good ol' American practice of victim blaming: "Well, we specifically told you we'd screw you over; look, it's in paragraph 15…

If you agree to something, you are not a victim, you are a participant.

Don’t agree to things you don’t like and claim to be a victim, unless you had a gun to your head. We should have higher expectations than that.

Don’t like the mortgage process? Don’t get a mortgage. Pay cash, or rent. The world doesn’t owe you the exact terms you want. That’s not the fault of capitalism, it’s as bad or worse under any other system.

You also seem confused about how the process works. Nobody hovers over you under time pressure. Escrow takes like 30 days, and during that time the lenders will freak out about any reason to prevent you from getting the mortgage. They are more worried about getting screwed than the applicants are.

Re: Wells Fargo to pay $3.7B for mistreating customers

#129

Post by yborg »

phaedryx wrote: post #29
theandrewbailey wrote: post #5

I don't understand why anyone still does business with Wells Fargo.

A story from when I was in college: My backpack got stolen and it had my checkbook in it. I went into Wells Fargo (I became their customer because they bought my regular bank) to figure out what to do. I was told that I had to close my account (connected to the checkbook) and open a new one. Kinda weird, but I went with it. They sent me a new checkbook and new ATM card. Landlord only took payment with checks so I wro…

This was directly caused by their policy of incenting new accounts which was the last thing they were sanctioned for.

Re: Wells Fargo to pay $3.7B for mistreating customers

#130

Post by reducesuffering »

theandrewbailey wrote: post #5

I don't understand why anyone still does business with Wells Fargo.

Many wealthy people are inclined because they'll have the lowest mortgage rates caused by a 0.5% interest rate deduction with a temporary asset transfer of $1m. Some people will take the 5% as opposed to 5.5% and save $300/month, because whoever originates your mortgage may just sell it to WF anyway.
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