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Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

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Re: Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

#121

Post by lazide »

trgn wrote: post #36
KptMarchewa wrote: post #12

Sure, but try to convince people who are okay with accepting (other) deaths just to feel "in control" of a two ton vehicle.

Why is this downvoted? This desire to be in control of a car, or the belief one should be in control of a car, is a true curse on the public realm. People who actively think of themselves of good drivers, are invariable the ones who drive aggressively. It's never the ones that drive slow, boring, and predictable that reject safety measures. For example; seatbelts were fought, the fetishization of things like accelera…

I’ve had auto braking nearly cause collisions twice with other vehicles when it got confused in construction zones (in heavy traffic) and jammed on the brakes.

I also drive pretty carefully and provide a ton of space, but others don’t.

Also see Tesla phantom braking.

It isn’t just diesel bros.

Re: Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

#122

Post by hoffspot »

I have to back out of my driveway in a 2021 Ford Explorer on a fairly busy street. I am typically very cautious because there are parked cars along the street obstructing visibility and you have to be real careful backing out. Even with this heightened caution level, one time I missed a small, gray car that happened to be perfectly obstructed by the rear left pillar as I elected to back out. The "collision avoidance autobraking" kicked on and definitely saved an accident. I may get false positives now and then, but that one instance of a saved accident makes up for all the random quirks as the manufacturers work to improve these systems. I'm a believer.

Re: Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

#123

Post by fuzzythinker »

proggy wrote: post #87

Implementation matters. The automatic braking on my compact SUV has falsely triggered hundreds of times over the course of 3 years, usually when transitioning from a moderately-pitched-down driveway into a roadway. The result of this scenario is the car coming to a dead stop with its front end halfway into a traffic lane, putting me and my passengers at greater risk of a collision from oncoming traffic approaching fr…

Name and shame your SUV please. You may save lives doing so.

Re: Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

#124

Post by vel0city »

branon wrote: post #114
vel0city wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody's approaching nearly stopped cars Yes they are, further up this comment chain is: > for example, if they're turning and will be gone in a second anyway That car turning is a nearly stopped car, doing a maneuver which could result in them stopping suddenly and unexpectedly. Going 40mph less than 80 feet away from that car turning is absolutely an extremely risky manuver. You don't know they're going to be gon…

You can turn the wheel of a vehicle without being stopped. People change lanes at speed on the highway every day. Please try to assume good faith. "Turn" does not always imply a 90 degree turn with a full stop prior. I am not approaching cars at speed while they are stopping to make a 90 degree turn...

Changing lanes is called changing lanes, not turning. They're inherently different maneuvers.

Either way, if you are rapidly closing the distance to a car which is changing lanes, you don't know for certain they won't cancel the maneuver and go back to being in the lane. You're still assuming that, and assuming you'll be able to slow or stop fast enough to handle it.

If your AEB is constantly getting "false" alarms, maybe it is not the AEB that needs adjustment. Maybe driving in a fashion where the car's AEB doesn't constantly give "false" alarms would be a lot safer.

Re: Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

#125

Post by branon »

vel0city wrote: post #124
branon wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can turn the wheel of a vehicle without being stopped. People change lanes at speed on the highway every day. Please try to assume good faith. "Turn" does not always imply a 90 degree turn with a full stop prior. I am not approaching cars at speed while they are stopping to make a 90 degree turn...

Changing lanes is called changing lanes, not turning. They're inherently different maneuvers. Either way, if you are rapidly closing the distance to a car which is changing lanes, you don't know for certain they won't cancel the maneuver and go back to being in the lane. You're still assuming that, and assuming you'll be able to slow or stop fast enough to handle it. If your AEB is constantly getting "false" alarms,…

It is by no means a constant occurrence. I've edited my original comment to disclaim this as you seem unable to assume good faith about any of this. It has happened only twice, both times with a fairly wide margin where human intervention could have occurred should it have been needed (it wasn't).

Changing lanes is a type of turn because you _turn_ the wheel to change lanes. You also might turn 45 degrees in a roundabout, or 90 degrees at a stoplight. They are all turns.

I'd agree that it's an assumption. Though your assumption that the distance is closed _rapidly_ is also just that - an assumption, and one made in bad faith despite my efforts to correct it.

The mere act of being in a car on the road involves dozens of assumptions made every single minute about the traffic conditions. Very little is known for certain, ALL maneuvers are to some extent based on assumptions.

This conversation is no longer productive, thanks for your participation anyway though.

Re: Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

#126

Post by pwinnski »

branon wrote: post #10

Oof, my experience with with auto-brake in a 2021 Subaru Crosstrek (anecdotal, sample size of one, all that good stuff) is much the opposite. It's too sensitive and tends to brake shockingly hard during fairly mundane maneuvers. When backing up near a wall/obstacle, the auto-brake seems to kick in when anything is closer than three or four feet away from the bumper. I use my mirrors and have an accurate impression of…

"Over-sensitive" or not, what's the actual harm in driving in a way that avoids triggering it?

When your driving safety system gives you feedback while driving, you have two choices:

- Learn from the system and modify your driving to be safer for yourself and those around you, or

- Ignore the system, describe it as "too sensitive," and disable it.

Before the driving safety system feedback, you might have been an unsafe driver out of ignorance. After the driving safety system feedback, you're choosing to be an unsafe driver willfully.

Re: Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

#127

Post by BeetleB »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #94
BeetleB wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It probably varies by state, but people I know who've rear ended someone else have said that no one is interested in how it happened . The cops didn't care, and the insurance didn't care. The rule is it's your responsibility to maintain a safe distance. So sure - the guy in front of you may have been extremely reckless, but no one involved is even going to want to hear that narrative.

>So sure - the guy in front of you may have been extremely reckless, but no one involved is even going to want to hear that narrative. Nobody cares about talk. Everybody lies when they have financial motive to do so and everyone who deals with accidents professionally knows this. That said, insurance companies care deeply about hard to falsify (i.e. anything better than heresay) evidince that show that their customer…

Once again: No! Not for rear ends.

For other accidents, yes - I've found they want to listen. Rear ending: Not really: They just want to know who was driving the car that rear ended the other car.

I got rear ended once. I spoke to the other party's insurance. Trust me - they didn't want to know why I had gotten hit. It's to their benefit to know, but for them it was an open and shut case. All they wanted to confirm was that it was their insured who had rear ended me.

Re: Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

#128

Post by giantg2 »

branon wrote: post #101
giantg2 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please provide a source for that definition. I've never seen that used anywhere.

I don't have a source, it's just what makes sense to me - which at the end of the day, is how we all drive. As far as definitions for "car length" go, I feel that "average length of an actual car" is just as open to interpretation as "minimum safe length at which to follow a car" - really, these are both non-definitions. Today I've learned NEVER to reference "car length" online because it's a shitty and imprecise uni…

You could use actual distances with speed, or seconds behind. Either one can be an appropriate measurement and are used in things like Driver Ed courses.

Car length may be variable, but is colloquially understood to be 15' give or take, but not more than 20'.

Re: Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

#129

Post by pwinnski »

branon wrote: post #26
admax88qqq wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just leave more space on the highway when someone is turning? Auto brake isn't just for "inattentive" drivers. It's also for self proclaimed "attentive" drivers that can still lose focus at a bad instant. A turning car can still slam in their brakes when they're not completely out of your lane. Its rare, so your maneuver will be fine most of the time. But sometimes other drivers do unexpected things.

Fair enough, could definitely happen. I figure I _do_ still leave enough space even when closing though. I've never wrecked a car yet, so I tend to doubt the machine when it challenges a what I'm pretty sure is a well-refined heuristic.

Everybody who ever wrecks a car has "never wrecked a car yet" right up to that point.

Re: Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

#130

Post by notacoward »

CydeWeys wrote: post #27
branon wrote: post #10

Oof, my experience with with auto-brake in a 2021 Subaru Crosstrek (anecdotal, sample size of one, all that good stuff) is much the opposite. It's too sensitive and tends to brake shockingly hard during fairly mundane maneuvers. When backing up near a wall/obstacle, the auto-brake seems to kick in when anything is closer than three or four feet away from the bumper. I use my mirrors and have an accurate impression of…

Honestly, I feel like a lot of the people complaining about this feature are just bad drivers who regularly drive unsafely and are now getting called out on it. This in particular: > Sometimes, though, I will allow the distance between myself and the next car to close, for example, if they're turning and will be gone in a second anyway. The Subaru then ruins my well-calculated slowdown maneuver by slamming on the bra…

> You don't know if the car in front of you making that turn is going to brake suddenly

More drivers need to be aware of this one. There's an intersection near me where drivers always tailgate and rush others through the (slightly greater than 90-degree) turn onto a side street, no matter how well the turn has been signaled already. There have been multiple minor accidents, but fortunately no pedestrians have been hit that I know of. When someone's turning, drivers behind need to give them more space not less.

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