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App Store on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple

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Re: App Store on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple

#121

Post by [deleted] »

interpol_p wrote: post #95
mensetmanusman wrote: post #31

After iOS 16 Apple asks for ‘analytics’ to improve iOS. It is disingenuous of them to use the word ‘Tracking’ for everyone else and ‘experience improving’ for themselves.

This is not what they are doing, though. As far as I can tell, Apple never does the kind of "Tracking" that is reserved for that popup — namely, using a unique identifier to track a user across apps & sites not owned by Apple The Tracking popup requests that the user allows an application to send a unique identifier which can be correlated by other apps, advertising networks, social media platforms (eg. like buttons,…

[deleted]

Re: App Store on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple

#122

Post by simonh »

jesterson wrote: post #115
judge2020 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tracking how users use your own app is hardly malicious, in fact it's entirely in an effort to identify user frustration and solve it or otherwise improve the product. Tracking across different apps is definitely malicious, though.

Quoted post unavailable.

Because humans aren’t omniscient with perfect reasoning ability, and full knowledge of all possible user circumstances and needs.

Re: App Store on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple

#123

Post by tbjoern »

jesterson wrote: post #115
judge2020 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tracking how users use your own app is hardly malicious, in fact it's entirely in an effort to identify user frustration and solve it or otherwise improve the product. Tracking across different apps is definitely malicious, though.

Quoted post unavailable.

How would you find out what causes user frustration?

Company internal testing can only go so far, especially in a small team.

Re: App Store on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple

#124

Post by onion2k »

beders wrote: post #24

We use LogRocket to record all interactions with our front-ends and it's awesome for trouble shooting and also invaluable for our product managers. They can see where users are struggling with the app and where extra-guidance is necessary. I'm assuming many many many other apps and web pages are doing the same thing. Nothing to see here.

Now imagine what LogRocket could do with that data when they blended it with data from their other users, or if they augmented it with data they bought in from other services. Or perhaps LogRocket could sell the data to a broker, and then on to [Meta|Google|me].

That's what you're doing to your users.

I'd consider that something to see.

(I don't have any evidence to believe LogRocket are doing this; LogRocket is just the example. Other tracking services exist, and they sure as hell do do this sort of thing.)

Re: App Store on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple

#125

Post by simonh »

aurora72 wrote: post #54
CharlesW wrote: post #36

It's interesting that the researchers assumed turning off the transmission of device analytics would also turn off the transmission of all app analytics, whether from Apple or third parties. I also wish they would've tried Lockdown Mode, at least.

Quoted post unavailable.

The purpose of analytics is firstly to recreate bugs, and also to identify cases where users are getting stuck or frustrated. An example of the latter might a user repeatedly going back to the same screen again and again because they can’t find something. It's generally not useful at the individual level, but can be if you see similar behaviour across a large number of sessions.

I know you don’t care if there’s a real reason or not, but others here might. Anyway, it's good they're moving towards seeking more comprehensive permission for this kind of analytics.

Re: App Store on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple

#127

Post by [deleted] »

altairprime wrote: post #26
tinus_hn wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also Apple doesn’t have any incentive to ‘fingerprint’ App Store users because they are either logged in or using a unique identifier.

This argument’s logical reasoning error is to claim the absence of all incentive due to the absence of one incentive. Apple has access to the logged-in account’s properties, as you assert, but this does not rule out Apple having other incentives for tracking.

[deleted]

Re: App Store on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple

#129

Post by amelius »

altairprime wrote: post #10

OP misconstrues an iOS tracking dialog to support their complaint: > The strange thing is that Apple introduced strict measures in iOS 14.5 to prevent developers from fingerprinting users. The dialog text in their screenshot reads: > Allow “App” to track your activity across other companies’ apps and sites? Users refusing this permission are not prohibiting tracking by the company that issued the dialog. They are pro…

Whatever Apple is doing, it should be possible to buy a phone and not have it phone home without permission. And you should be able to use the phone without ever contacting the vendor again. Otherwise you bought a service, not a product.

Also, I recall a case where MacOS was asking Apple permission whenever the user wished to start an executable. This is nuts.

Re: App Store on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple

#130

Post by newaccount74 »

cmeacham98 wrote: post #109
cmeacham98 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I'll take that as you can't demonstrate it? Interestingly, I started up an Nginx server and piped the logs to /dev/null and it worked just fine!! Wow, turns out those logs weren't necessary at all. And by your standard, where tracking that isn't necessary for the website to function is unethical, that makes every single person running Nginx in its default configuration bad and participating in unethical tracking o…

Because it doesn't seem like I'm going to get a response to this, I'll walk down the rest of the logic for completeness's sake. I think we can both agree that "all unnecessary tracking is unethical" doesn't make sense and leads to insane conclusions like "all Nginx users with IP addresses in their logs are participating in unethical tracking". So we're back to square one, where someone needs to demonstrate this type…

I think the argument is a bit nuanced, but I see where the "tracking is bad" comes from.

I think everyone would agree that it would be very bad if eg. an instant messaging app logged message contents and allowed devs to look at anyones messages.

On the other hand, most people would not object to an app that sends an anonymous weekly counter of which buttons were tapped.

Anything between these two takes a lot of care and deliberation; on the one hand devs want useable data, on the other hand users don't want sensitive data tracked.

But it takes a lot of effort to make sure you don't accidentally log sensitive data. Eg. if you log spell check suggestions (to determine common typos) you might probably be able to use that data to reconstruct message contents.

Now, as a user, do I trust random companies to get this right? Do I trust random companies to not accidentally log sensitive data?

And the answer to that question is NO, I don't trust them. So if you ask me if I would consent to activity tracking, I would almost definitely say no, even though I don't think anything is wrong with anonymous usage tracking -- I just don't trust every company to get this right, so I'd rather have them not track anything at all.

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