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Why I Don't Use Netscape (1999)

complang.tuwien.ac.at

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Re: Why I Don't Use Netscape (1999)

#121

Post by mrtksn »

hulitu wrote: post #69
mrtksn wrote: post #20

So the "movement" against modern browser features is not a movement and has nothing to do with these features but its simply a version of "kids these days lost their ways" thinking. A version of conservatism, I guess. "Everything was better in the good old days" and "The new generation is horrible, the humanity is doomed" kind of thoughts are probably a manifestation of fading youth.

> are probably a manifestation of fading youth. When a program needs 3 build systems to build (ninja, meson, make) is probably a manifestation of exuberation.

I completely share these feelings but IMHO the products should't go back in time to ease the burden of the artisans. The tools should improve.

Re: Why I Don't Use Netscape (1999)

#122

Post by artogahr »

myfonj wrote: post #15
dave84 wrote: post #11

The timestamp on the downloads provided on the install page are March 5 1999, and March 6 2000 which may give an indication as to this articles age.

HTTP headers tell Last-Modified: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 17:07:32 GMT First Archive.org capture is from 1997 [1] and there really are some additions in current version since then. [1] http://web.archive.org/web/19970106091058/http://www.complan...

Hey, thanks for this! I looked online for the release date of the emacs extension he's using, which dates back to 1997. But he mentioned it being quite old so I didn't know what to put as the (year).

Re: Why I Don't Use Netscape (1999)

#123

Post by mrtksn »

rpdillon wrote: post #64
mrtksn wrote: post #20

So the "movement" against modern browser features is not a movement and has nothing to do with these features but its simply a version of "kids these days lost their ways" thinking. A version of conservatism, I guess. "Everything was better in the good old days" and "The new generation is horrible, the humanity is doomed" kind of thoughts are probably a manifestation of fading youth.

This strikes me as somewhat dismissive. My take is that the concerns raised in 1999 are even more true now. The problems we have with low-quality, bloated websites with questionable content are worse, and the rise of 'software that knows best' is only accelerating. If anything, this seems precient.

I completely agree with the criticism of bloat but IMHO that is a problem because the tooling to achieve the "modern software" is bad, not because of the requirements for modern software.

In other words, the criticism is fair but the solution of attempting to freeze time or even try to go back is not right. Sometimes though, when things get very bad going back to the basics and re-do everything can work.

Re: Why I Don't Use Netscape (1999)

#124

Post by sumtechguy »

b112 wrote: post #17
rrwo wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Using AJAX to hit internal APIs to load or update content improves performance of the site, and can make it easier to maintain.

I disagree. Using AJAX to hit internal APIs to load or update content improves performance of the site, and can make it easier to maintain. The reality is, with node junk, the average site uses 10mb of js, taking 5s to render, to show 1kb of text. Get rid of that 10mb of js, all those fonts, and you don't need to update only part of a page. It will load and render in 10ms.

Javascript is so good we hide it with transpilers so we do not have to use it.

Re: Why I Don't Use Netscape (1999)

#125

Post by neurostimulant »

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #116
imiric wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Security isn't everything, there's also accessibility to think about. TLS is not just about security. It also protects the authenticity of your content, ensures privacy and even accessibility for your visitors. Without it, any node between your visitor and your server could inject content and JavaScript to do all sorts of nefarious tracking and profiling. These days there's really no excuse for using plain HTTP on…

Actually, there is a very good excuse: I want to access the content I need with the browser and configuration I currently have, and without the ability to alter it. While the threat of MITM is technically true, thanks to being on a relatively safe networks segment, I have yet to encounter it happening in the real world, except in cases of captive portals, when I actually want it to happen. I think it is largely an ov…

You must be lucky. My cellphone carrier used to injects scripts and ads on plain http requests. Imagine seeing ads on wikipedia. Now that https is everywhere, this behavior is largely stop.

Re: Why I Don't Use Netscape (1999)

#126

Post by [deleted] »

artogahr wrote: post #93
olalonde wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you don't believe this is a good thing? How would you measure "what the average Joe wants"?

I'm inclined to make the comment that the "average Joe" doesn't actually know what he wants, in respect to what's actually good for him in the long term.

[deleted]

Re: Why I Don't Use Netscape (1999)

#128

Post by checkyoursudo »

tbran wrote: post #110
forgotmypw17 wrote: post #70

I still use this strategy, though these days, I primarily use Mosaic and Netscape for testing. I tend to browse without JavaScript enabled, except for places I already trust to not abuse it. And if there is anything blocking me from accessing the page, such as a modal dialog, a cookie notice, a survey, a prompt to sign up for the newsletter, I close the tab. Over time, I have found that type of rude lack of considera…

I feel like the strategy of closing sites with newsletter sign-ups, dialog, etc. is just going to waste your time. If I'm searching for something, I just want the information. Not gonna close websites till I find one that has no popups/modals!! Popup Blocker [0] and uBlock Origin for Firefox will do a pretty good job of getting rid of the junk you don't want. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/popup-block…

> I just want the information

Certainly a reasonable choice on your part. We all want what we want.

I have a friend who, when he goes grocery shopping, grabs the first item he sees from each of the items on his list. As far as I can determine, this is without regard to price, quality, or any other factor.

Re: Why I Don't Use Netscape (1999)

#129

Post by SuperSandro2000 »

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #70

I still use this strategy, though these days, I primarily use Mosaic and Netscape for testing. I tend to browse without JavaScript enabled, except for places I already trust to not abuse it. And if there is anything blocking me from accessing the page, such as a modal dialog, a cookie notice, a survey, a prompt to sign up for the newsletter, I close the tab. Over time, I have found that type of rude lack of considera…

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