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Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

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Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be nice if it disabled itself when another password manager is installed...

Keychain is opt-in, users choose wether they want to use it or not when configuring their iPhone for the first time.

Not in my experience. I never turn it on (because I want to use Bitwarden), but Safari always offers to save passwords unless I manually disable it.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#122
post #80

While Google, Microsoft, and Apple clearly factor into the equation here (especially Google — when Chrome first came out the marketing for it was a real force to contend with, and they've aggressively pushed Chrome ever since), the other big thing is that Mozilla ceased to be a leader. They started chasing Chrome and put Firefox on the back burner, and now they're reaping what they've sown. I am a huge proponent of w…

The quality of Firefox has nothing to do with the anti-competitive actions of platforms. This affects Vivaldi, Brave, and all the 3rd-party web browsers (or the platform browsers on other platforms, e.g. Chrome on Windows). Mozilla doesn't make this argument because their browser share is lower than it used to be, but because diversity, not domination, is the goal.

How come Chrome towers over Edge then?

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#123

I'm on a macbook currently using firefox for my default browser, haven't been forced to use safari. On my windows rig I use chrome, haven't been forced to use edge. This is provably false. Haven't been forced to use any specific browser across various operating systems and hardware.

I don't know if something changed recently, but Microsoft deserves some criticism:

- https://www.howtogeek.com/744102/windows-11-makes-it-hard-to...

- https://www.howtogeek.com/768727/microsoft-calls-firefoxs-br...

On macOS it's easy to change this, but things like the "tips" notification it displays after a major update still opens on Safari, ignoring your setting.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#124

Without commenting on the claims, it's interesting to consider how times have changed. Microsoft originally lost an antitrust lawsuit [1] over little more than tying Internet Explorer into their OS and not readily including alternatives. They not only lost that case, but the initial judgement was that the company was to be broken up. Microsoft started spending dramatically more money on "lobbying" following that. [1]…

The Wikipedia page does not make this clear but Microsoft did not actually lose on the tying claim. The district court ruled against them but this was appealed and the appeals court vacated that ruling and remanded the case for further analysis (which never happened as the case was then later settled).

> They not only lost that case, but the initial judgement was that the company was to be broken up.

That judgement was also vacated by the appeals court who concluded that the district court "failed to provide an adequate explanation for the relief it ordered".

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#125
post #29

Is their Google search deal (~$400m a year) that expires next year being renewed? If not, might explain some of the desire to bite the hand that has fed it for so long.

You have to wonder what Mozilla are doing with $400m a year.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#127

I'm on a macbook currently using firefox for my default browser, haven't been forced to use safari. On my windows rig I use chrome, haven't been forced to use edge. This is provably false. Haven't been forced to use any specific browser across various operating systems and hardware.

There are a few places in Windows where Microsoft does force links to open Edge instead of whatever your default browser is. Depending on your usage patterns I guess it is possible to never stumble across those places [1], but they do indeed exist [2].

[1] E.g. I've only really encountered them in one place so far, and it's easily possible to avoid that place, too.

[2] That one place I certainly know of is the lock screen in case you've kept the default "Show random pretty pictures" setting turned on.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#128

Does Firefox have a future? I'm writing this from Firefox, having used it ever since the days when Firefox releases used to have launch parties, and tabs was the revolutionary killer feature. Let me rephrase the question: does Gecko/Spidermonkey have a future? I think it's clear the Firefox branding will live on, since it is Mozilla's crown jewel. But in today's landscape, you can target WebKit (Apple) and V8/Blink (…

I'm not an expert on the web tech. so apologies in advance but wouldn't it be great if Mozilla spent all that money Google gives them on something more revolutionary like a new runtime for ephemeral apps and the corresponding UI engine that's not bound to the legacy JS and HTML and has near native performance and access to hardware sensors? Add to that the support for multi device setups where you can move an app session easily from your phone to your desktop. There're so many cool things to do there.

Instead we're dealing with the "diversity" of the web (HTML,CSS,JS) engines and endless arguments around Manifest v3, etc. So many precious man hours are going to waste.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#129

Without commenting on the claims, it's interesting to consider how times have changed. Microsoft originally lost an antitrust lawsuit [1] over little more than tying Internet Explorer into their OS and not readily including alternatives. They not only lost that case, but the initial judgement was that the company was to be broken up. Microsoft started spending dramatically more money on "lobbying" following that. [1]…

Amazing that 20 years on, the USA has essentially given up on anti-trust tech regulation. Facebook acquired and repeatedly copied its closest competitors, no problem. Adobe buys up its competitors, no problem. Google aggressively pushes Chrome and fails to makes its own websites fully compatible with competitors, carry on. Apple refuses to give users the freedom to run their own apps on their purchased phones, no big…

> Google and fails to makes its own websites fully compatible with competitors

More than that: Google actively prevents competitors from working when competitors would work fine without any extra "help"

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