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Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

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Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#21

Post by neogodless »

dont__panic wrote: post #18
somenameforme wrote: post #15

Without commenting on the claims, it's interesting to consider how times have changed. Microsoft originally lost an antitrust lawsuit [1] over little more than tying Internet Explorer into their OS and not readily including alternatives. They not only lost that case, but the initial judgement was that the company was to be broken up. Microsoft started spending dramatically more money on "lobbying" following that. [1]…

Amazing that 20 years on, the USA has essentially given up on anti-trust tech regulation. Facebook acquired and repeatedly copied its closest competitors, no problem. Adobe buys up its competitors, no problem. Google aggressively pushes Chrome and fails to makes its own websites fully compatible with competitors, carry on. Apple refuses to give users the freedom to run their own apps on their purchased phones, no big…

I certainly don't know for sure, but one theory would be the 2010 Citizens United ruling.

https://www.history.com/topics/united-states-constitution/ci...

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#22

Post by dralley »

bombcar wrote: post #9

Google Chrome is highly successful on Mac and Windows so it’s clear that Microsoft and apple aren’t forcing that hard. Mozilla is just not doing so hot.

Google Chrome:

* Got years of free advertising real estate on the most visited website on the internet, but hid the ads if you were using Chrome already

* Payed the likes of AVG, Avast, Adobe, Oracle and others to have their own software installers automatically install Chrome and make it the default browser unless you uncheck the boxes

* Repeatedly leveraged nonstandard and Chrome-specific APIs (Polymer v0) on their websites which caused other browsers to need slow and clunky polyfills.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#23

Post by Wowfunhappy »

weikju wrote: post #6
arnvald wrote: post #3

They're right, recently I've installed some Windows update for my parents and I had to reject like 5 suggested changes - installing Office trial, switching default browser to Edge yet again, and more. But this goes way beyond the browsers - I've never explicitly installed Keychain on my iphone and yet it shows as an option next to 1password every time I fill in a password field. Google calendar asks me to install an…

Regarding keychain for password filling, you can choose to disable it in the settings -> passwords -> options. It’s selected by default but if you tap it it will deselect it.

It would be nice if it disabled itself when another password manager is installed...

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#24

Post by smoldesu »

dont__panic wrote: post #18
somenameforme wrote: post #15

Without commenting on the claims, it's interesting to consider how times have changed. Microsoft originally lost an antitrust lawsuit [1] over little more than tying Internet Explorer into their OS and not readily including alternatives. They not only lost that case, but the initial judgement was that the company was to be broken up. Microsoft started spending dramatically more money on "lobbying" following that. [1]…

Amazing that 20 years on, the USA has essentially given up on anti-trust tech regulation. Facebook acquired and repeatedly copied its closest competitors, no problem. Adobe buys up its competitors, no problem. Google aggressively pushes Chrome and fails to makes its own websites fully compatible with competitors, carry on. Apple refuses to give users the freedom to run their own apps on their purchased phones, no big…

My guess is that the government realized that FAANG makes for better bedfellows than sworn enemies. They can wave economic incentives in front of their face in exchange for international power beyond what other countries can offer. Having Google, Amazon, Apple and Microsoft under your thumb gives you control over ~80% of the internet and <95% of all PII. There is obviously a domestic interest in controlling that, so it would make sense that our intelligence agencies trade surveillance capabilities for SEC mulligans. That also explains our bipartisan indifference towards real data regulation and privacy legislation.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#25

Post by lol768 »

neogodless wrote: post #7

It drives me nuts that a fresh install of Android apps defaults them all to "in-app" browsing instead of my default browser. And you have to go to each app and turn it off in a different place. Wish I could just override all of them and "open every web page in My. Default. Browser. "

If apps are written correctly, they can use the Custom Tabs protocol with your default browser (which can be Firefox, as it has support). You'll get the same embedded browser experience, support for add-ons and ability to pop out the site into a separate 'window'/activity.

Of course, many apps don't properly do this and end up hardcoding references to Chrome...

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#26

Post by thewebcount »

dont__panic wrote: post #20
g_p wrote: post #12

One of the next frontiers as a barrier to browser switching will be "software"-backed WebAuthn/FIDO2/"passkeys". If you look at the APIs available on MacOS/iOS at present [0], and how WebAuthn works, you need to "trust" the client-side software to correctly identify the site origin (i.e. protocol, domain, port) and pass it to a physical security key. In the case of a software token, you need to restrict which app(s)…

Is there any chance that third party password managers like Bitwarden and 1Password will be able to implement add-ons and apps that replace this functionality, and that could open up migration paths? Or is the passkey future even worse than I feared?

This has existed for years. I use 1Password for all my passwords and it shows up as an option when entering or creating a password in any browser on iOS. Furthermore, all browser can access the keychain if the user authorizes it.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#27

Post by andy_xor_andrew »

Does Firefox have a future?

I'm writing this from Firefox, having used it ever since the days when Firefox releases used to have launch parties, and tabs was the revolutionary killer feature.

Let me rephrase the question: does Gecko/Spidermonkey have a future?

I think it's clear the Firefox branding will live on, since it is Mozilla's crown jewel.

But in today's landscape, you can target WebKit (Apple) and V8/Blink (Chrome) and you've surely covered 98% of all use cases.

Surely these competing engines have far, far more resources pouring into them than Mozilla can afford.

Since the balance of power has shifted towards the owners of these huge players, how can Mozilla keep its browser engine competitive, given that all these new features (such as wasm) surely require massive investment?

I know these questions have been asked already a million times, but it keeps me wondering. Will Firefox eventually need to become a fork of Chromium like everyone else, just to keep pace? Can Mozilla keep its entire browser stack afloat in these shifting currents? (pardon the gross metaphor)

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#28

Post by lol768 »

nijave wrote: post #11
phpisthebest wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reskinned Chrome is the default on windows

And macOS (Safari uses WebKit, if that's the criteria)

Edgium is much closer to Chrom(ium) than Safari/WebKit, I'd say. If Safari used Blink and V8 I'd agree with you

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#30

Post by mistrial9 »

dont__panic wrote: post #18
somenameforme wrote: post #15

Without commenting on the claims, it's interesting to consider how times have changed. Microsoft originally lost an antitrust lawsuit [1] over little more than tying Internet Explorer into their OS and not readily including alternatives. They not only lost that case, but the initial judgement was that the company was to be broken up. Microsoft started spending dramatically more money on "lobbying" following that. [1]…

Amazing that 20 years on, the USA has essentially given up on anti-trust tech regulation. Facebook acquired and repeatedly copied its closest competitors, no problem. Adobe buys up its competitors, no problem. Google aggressively pushes Chrome and fails to makes its own websites fully compatible with competitors, carry on. Apple refuses to give users the freedom to run their own apps on their purchased phones, no big…

no - there are consent decrees and internal legal agreements that you and I will never see, in effect now. Combine that with soft-pressure in thousands of (real) ways..
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