Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move • Hacker News Board

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#121

Post by stonogo » Tue, Sep 20, 2022, 9:48 AM UTC

linkdd wrote: post #90

FooHentai wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm with Carlsen on this. If you're caught or admit to cheating even once in a professional competitive career that's it - You should be out for good. That we have this bizarre attitude of permissiveness and time salvation around cheaters in competition is frankly bizarre. What other argument is there than to refuse to engage. It is not difficult to simply never cheat, in the same way that it is not difficult to simp…

> If you're caught or admit to cheating even once in a professional competitive career that's it - You should be out for good Yeah, justice! If you steal something once in your life, straight to jail, for good. If you have a speeding ticket, no more driver license for the rest of your life. After all, people don't change, any mistake in life should be fatal and destroy your entire future.

Chess is a game.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#122

Post by dane-pgp » Tue, Sep 20, 2022, 9:49 AM UTC

morelisp wrote: post #107

dane-pgp wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone on Niemann's team could have been feeding him info which "coincidentally" happens to be very useful, without Niemann suspecting where the info came from. (A bug in Carlsen's hotel room?) Someone on Carlsen's team could be encouraging him to focus on lines which they've discovered (through a bug in the hotel room) that Niemann's team is preparing counters for. In both of these cases, the corrupt team member co…

While these are both unsportsmanlike (and probably illegal) I'm not actually sure they're cheating.

You might be right, but Carlsen hasn't accused anyone of cheating, or unsportsmanlike behaviour, or criminality. He's just chosen not to play against Hans, which he has every right to do.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#123

Post by FartyMcFarter » Tue, Sep 20, 2022, 9:50 AM UTC

kareemsabri wrote: post #6

Kind of a basic question but how do you cheat at chess, especially "over the board" ?

Some tournaments allow you to take breaks away from the board. If you're at a venue with a balcony (like the St Louis chess club), someone could give you light signals from a parked car.

That's a relatively low tech solution, it gets crazier from there as other people are saying here.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#124

Post by jstx1 » Tue, Sep 20, 2022, 9:50 AM UTC

nkzd wrote: post #7

Interesting to see a prominent figure like Magnus acting childish. Brings them down to the level of the rest of us mortals.

I'm not seeing any childishness in what he's done.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#125

Post by Nokinside » Tue, Sep 20, 2022, 9:50 AM UTC

linkdd wrote: post #90

FooHentai wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm with Carlsen on this. If you're caught or admit to cheating even once in a professional competitive career that's it - You should be out for good. That we have this bizarre attitude of permissiveness and time salvation around cheaters in competition is frankly bizarre. What other argument is there than to refuse to engage. It is not difficult to simply never cheat, in the same way that it is not difficult to simp…

> If you're caught or admit to cheating even once in a professional competitive career that's it - You should be out for good Yeah, justice! If you steal something once in your life, straight to jail, for good. If you have a speeding ticket, no more driver license for the rest of your life. After all, people don't change, any mistake in life should be fatal and destroy your entire future.

In some areas of life the rule is more strict. Even a lowlife should be allowed to seek jobs etc.

But lowlife should not be allowed in professional chess, and professional chess is not place for second changes.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#126

Post by addicted » Tue, Sep 20, 2022, 9:50 AM UTC

tibbar wrote: post #2

For context, Magnus withdrew from a major tournament last month after losing to Hans. He has not made a statement, but it is understood that he suspects Hans of cheating. Hans has admitted to cheating online, though he denies cheating in person. As more evidence comes out, it seems that Hans has cheated a lot more than he admitted, and potentially over the board as well (for example, this analysis [1] shows that he's…

There is nothing that can help Magnus’s case because Magnus has made no case.

He played Hans at the meltwater tournament, and beat him. A few weeks later, he played Hans again at the Sinquefeld cup, and lost to him. After which he posted a cryptic Jose Mourinho meme. And a few weeks later he played Hans online and resigned in 1 move.

What’s Magnus’s case? What has he said his case is? What’s his argument? That losing to Hans was too traumatic for him and that he can’t play him anymore? Because he had no problem playing him while he was still winning against him.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#127

Post by NotYourLawyer » Tue, Sep 20, 2022, 9:51 AM UTC

H8crilA wrote: post #103

wheresmycraisin wrote: post #99

Magnus Carlsen has basically been a model champion for close to a decade now. He's not known for controversy and the odd situations where he dealt with less-than-classy opponents, he's taken it on the chin and moved on, usually with nothing more than brief statement. And he has been very positive about other younger GM's. So him coming out and "accusing" Niemann is akin to a nobel prize winning scientist accusing a g…

What? Just because of reputation? What are you even talking about... Have you ever heard of "innocent until proven guilty"? The burden of proof is on the accuser. We should be shown evidence, or Carlsen should apologize.

It’s not a court of law, and the kid has cheated before.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#128

Post by morelisp » Tue, Sep 20, 2022, 9:52 AM UTC

huijzer wrote: post #116

A possible explanation I haven’t seen yet is that Magnus his second move is meant as a test. It reminds me of the old days where a chess computer would take much longer for an uncommon move at the start than a common move. Maybe Magnus was testing the response of Hans to his uncommon move and wasn’t pleased with the result? I don’t think that Magnus his behaviour is random. I mean he is literally a chess player.

AIUI you need to make at least one move before resigning and you can only resign on your turn. Magnus resigned as early as possible.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#129

Post by eschatology » Tue, Sep 20, 2022, 9:53 AM UTC

H8crilA wrote: post #103

wheresmycraisin wrote: post #99

Magnus Carlsen has basically been a model champion for close to a decade now. He's not known for controversy and the odd situations where he dealt with less-than-classy opponents, he's taken it on the chin and moved on, usually with nothing more than brief statement. And he has been very positive about other younger GM's. So him coming out and "accusing" Niemann is akin to a nobel prize winning scientist accusing a g…

What? Just because of reputation? What are you even talking about... Have you ever heard of "innocent until proven guilty"? The burden of proof is on the accuser. We should be shown evidence, or Carlsen should apologize.

It's just a principle, used in some laws in some legal systems in some countries — nothing dictates all accusations made on the planet has to abide by "innocent until proven guilty" principle.

Nothing dictates that burden of proof is always on the accuser, especially in the internet where there isn't really any authority or agreements on subjects like this. It's just a statement/opinion by grandparent and it baffles me why presumption of innocence is even brought up like it's something to be held everywhere.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#130

Post by wheresmycraisin » Tue, Sep 20, 2022, 9:53 AM UTC

H8crilA wrote: post #103

wheresmycraisin wrote: post #99

Magnus Carlsen has basically been a model champion for close to a decade now. He's not known for controversy and the odd situations where he dealt with less-than-classy opponents, he's taken it on the chin and moved on, usually with nothing more than brief statement. And he has been very positive about other younger GM's. So him coming out and "accusing" Niemann is akin to a nobel prize winning scientist accusing a g…

What? Just because of reputation? What are you even talking about... Have you ever heard of "innocent until proven guilty"? The burden of proof is on the accuser. We should be shown evidence, or Carlsen should apologize.

Yes, when it's something that's unprovable (if done well enough), reputation can play a role, esp. if it's golden boy v.s. admitted past cheater.

And Carlsen didn't technically accuse him and Niemann is not technically on trial, so "innocent until proven guilty" is irrelevant. Magnus's goal seems to be to get Niemann disinvited from tournaments. He's taking such drastic measures for a reason at the expense of his own hard earned rep, and given his benevolence as world champion you have to trust his judgement.