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Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

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Re: Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

#121

Post by itsoktocry »

hans1729 wrote: post #96
lmt55 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have missed a source of demand, and I think it's important. As housing became more and more expensive to young professionals, some people in this group have worked harder and harder to buy property, even to the point where it no longer seems rational. For example, parents taking a lot of wealth out of their retirement savings or their own homes to assist children in buying. Professionals are working more…

I did not miss those people, but my wording was loaded and so the point got lost in translation. I implicitly captured them under b) "[...] it's dumb to buy estates where the price is set by people and institutions that have n times your own income/net worth" , where dumb is a loaded term for your > "to the point where it no longer seems rational" . > But crucially, the presence of this group of people arguably turns…

>Going in debt for 30-40 years has zero appeal for me, it just seems like a terrible move.

Buying a house isn't for everyone, sure. But this is a serious misunderstanding of what "going into debt" is. You're not buying a TV you'll throw out in 5 years, you're buying an asset class that has a history of appreciating in value over 100+ years that you can get incredible leverage on. In the US and Canada, at least, buying a house for a decent deal (in "normal" times, not at insane prices) is a no-brainer investment.

You mention buying companies...that's just a different asset class, but the idea is the same. It's not valueless the moment you buy it, you now have an asset.

>Buying estate = de facto being in debt for the entire career and then some, plus having to pay all repairs, anything.

Do you think this is all happening for free as a renter? At what point in your life do you plan on not paying for shelter?

Re: Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

#122

Post by cascom »

runeks wrote: post #106
shawabawa3 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain point 2? Why do you refinance if rates go up? Surely the point is that if rates go up you've locked in a better rate How does half your debt disappear if rates go up?

Sure. > Why do you refinance if rates go up? Surely the point is that if rates go up you've locked in a better rate You don't have to, but you can choose to either (a) keep the same rate and owe the same amount, or (b) get the new (higher) rate and owe less. > How does half your debt disappear if rates go up? It doesn't exactly. However, the market value of your mortgage loan halves if the rate doubles (roughly). Thi…

Except no bank (at least in the us) will cut that deal, because they don’t mark those loans to market.

Re: Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

#123

Post by namdnay »

xyzzyz wrote: post #71
colinb wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. That’s not the case. I had a fixed rate mortgage in the UK. Now I have one in Ireland. Two of my colleagues have taken them in the last couple of months. They’re very common. But.. in both countries such terms are for a relatively short period. E.g 5 years fixed changing to SVR for the remainder of the loan. I haven’t heard of loans fixed for the entire duration. I would’ve got one if I had found it. I can’t spea…

That’s not what Americans mean by “fixed rate”. In US, that means 30, or more rarely 15 year mortgage, where the rate is fixed for entire duration. The mortgage where it’s only fixed for some initial period is called “adjustable rate mortgage”. Your comment just supported the person you replied to being correct, that fixed rate (in US sense) mortgage market is nonexistent in most of Europe.

In France 99% of mortgages are fixed rate, for the entire term.

Re: Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

#124

Post by lmt55 »

nsteel wrote: post #119
lmt55 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

7 and 10 years are quite widely available now, although they're still not particularly popular. Not sure why brokers didn't mention them to you. Perhaps they like to show people low headline rates, or perhaps they see longer initial terms as bad for the broking business?

I think it's both of those reasons. Collecting commission on one 10-year mortgage, or five 2-year mortgages... I doubt they get 5x for the longer term, if anything. I'd like to understand how people think about a longer-term fixed deals. How do you know where you'll be in more than 5 years? If you need to move don't you get hammered by the ERCs? Can you really rely on transferring products? Habito One is an interesti…

You will get hammered by the ERCs, but with a few caveats:

  1. Often if you move house they will let you transfer your mortgage (actually take out a similar product and avoid the refi costs).
  2. If you win the lottery, or otherwise are in a situation to prepay your whole mortgage? Well you might care much less about the 5% early fees in that case.
  3. You can prepay usually 10% a year, at their discretion, without any early fees. If you just become a fair bit richer than you expected, prepaying at this level will reduce the mortgage quite quickly.

Re: Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

#125

Post by lmt55 »

hans1729 wrote: post #118
pjc50 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Going in debt for 30-40 years has zero appeal for me Going into debt at the lowest interest rate you'll ever be offered to buy a leveraged asset that's likely to increase in price and reduce the overhead you pay on your largest expense, housing, and hedge against the risk of rent increases and security against the whims of landlords? > Germany Oh, Germany. Somehow Germany has escaped the constantly increasing house…

> Going into debt at the lowest interest rate you'll ever be offered to buy a leveraged asset that's likely to increase in price and reduce the overhead you pay on your largest expense, housing, and hedge against the risk of rent increases and security against the whims of landlords? Look, if I had enough money around, I'd maybe consider the gamble. But I don't want to buy property to sell it later, I just want to li…

If in 10 years you want a year off is your landlord going to give you one?

Re: Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

#126

Post by yurishimo »

pjc50 wrote: post #105
hans1729 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not miss those people, but my wording was loaded and so the point got lost in translation. I implicitly captured them under b) "[...] it's dumb to buy estates where the price is set by people and institutions that have n times your own income/net worth" , where dumb is a loaded term for your > "to the point where it no longer seems rational" . > But crucially, the presence of this group of people arguably turns…

> Going in debt for 30-40 years has zero appeal for me Going into debt at the lowest interest rate you'll ever be offered to buy a leveraged asset that's likely to increase in price and reduce the overhead you pay on your largest expense, housing, and hedge against the risk of rent increases and security against the whims of landlords? > Germany Oh, Germany. Somehow Germany has escaped the constantly increasing house…

Japan I think is a bit different. Over there, housing is seen as a real commodity. In Tokyo, housing is torn down and replaced with newer stock all the time, often without any additional occupancy. Houses in Japan do not appreciate the way they do in the rest of the Western world.

Re: Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

#127

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

pjc50 wrote: post #105
hans1729 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not miss those people, but my wording was loaded and so the point got lost in translation. I implicitly captured them under b) "[...] it's dumb to buy estates where the price is set by people and institutions that have n times your own income/net worth" , where dumb is a loaded term for your > "to the point where it no longer seems rational" . > But crucially, the presence of this group of people arguably turns…

> Going in debt for 30-40 years has zero appeal for me Going into debt at the lowest interest rate you'll ever be offered to buy a leveraged asset that's likely to increase in price and reduce the overhead you pay on your largest expense, housing, and hedge against the risk of rent increases and security against the whims of landlords? > Germany Oh, Germany. Somehow Germany has escaped the constantly increasing house…

>Oh, Germany. Somehow Germany has escaped the constantly increasing house price effect

I hope that was sarcasm since housing in Germany has gotten super expensive.

Re: Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

#128

Post by [deleted] »

londons_explore wrote: post #92
JetAlone wrote: post #90

Buying a home mortgage is signing yourself over to a lifetime of servitude and uncertainty if you lose your income stream. Buy a property out of pocket to live in and make the most of a DIY life at a fraction of the cost and an odd stress differential, or just keep renting and be agile enough to roll with the punches.

Compare each strategy for each decade over the past 100 years... By a substantial margin, having a large home mortgage leaves you in a better financial position the vast majority of the decades, even if you lose your job and are forced to sell mid decade.

[deleted]

Re: Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

#129

Post by Beldin »

hans1729 wrote: post #118
pjc50 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Going in debt for 30-40 years has zero appeal for me Going into debt at the lowest interest rate you'll ever be offered to buy a leveraged asset that's likely to increase in price and reduce the overhead you pay on your largest expense, housing, and hedge against the risk of rent increases and security against the whims of landlords? > Germany Oh, Germany. Somehow Germany has escaped the constantly increasing house…

> Going into debt at the lowest interest rate you'll ever be offered to buy a leveraged asset that's likely to increase in price and reduce the overhead you pay on your largest expense, housing, and hedge against the risk of rent increases and security against the whims of landlords? Look, if I had enough money around, I'd maybe consider the gamble. But I don't want to buy property to sell it later, I just want to li…

Around here, monthly rent is as high as or higher than mortgage payments. With mortgage payments, you accrue ownership (for the "standard" mortgages around here). If you expect house prices to remain stable or increase during your residency in a property, ownership financially makes more sense.

Re: Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

#130

Post by nikanj »

refurb wrote: post #81
nikanj wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you plot Canadian housing supply vs Canadian city population growth, you get another perspective. Houses are incredibly expensive, because there aren't enough of them

Barrie, Ontario is in the middle of nowhere and houses cost $1M. Same with Kelowna, BC and Halifax, NS has doubled in price. That's not population growth, that's speculation. The Toronto suburbs are already falling in price and Canada is only ~1 month into 4-5 rate hikes this year. And unlike the US: 1) most mortgages need to be renewed in a much higher interest rate environment and 2) a lot of Canada has recourse lo…

"Greater Kelowna is the fastest-growing urban area in the country, Statistics Canada reported Friday. The Central Okanagan's population rose 14% between 2016 and 2021, from 194,892 to 222,162, according to information gathered during last year's census."

In fact, all three of your examples are on the list of fastest growing locations - Halifax at 8th and Barrie at 13th https://canadamag.ca/fastest-growing-cities-in-canada/

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