The case against masks at school • Hacker News Board

Re: The case against masks at school

#121

Post by nradov » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 5:58 PM UTC

There is no valid scientific or medical basis to mandate masks at school. It's pure scientism and politics. For anyone who believes that mask mandates should continue please take the time to educate yourself by listening to this panel discussion by a group of leading physicians. UCSF professor and infectious disease expert Dr. Monica Gandhi explains the current science very clearly.

https://peterattiamd.com/covid-part2/

https://profiles.ucsf.edu/monica.gandhi

Most European countries don't mandate masks for schoolchildren.

Re: The case against masks at school

#122

Post by hogrider » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 5:58 PM UTC

Wtf, masks absolutely work. Who is pushing this stuff and for what nefarious reasons? Do they think all children should get exposed early to the virus and then we'll develop heard immunity in decades to come? We have the vaccine for that.

Re: The case against masks at school

#123

Post by jimmyjazz14 » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 5:59 PM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #106

CrazyPyroLinux wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[citation needed] Studies that don't use a model or beg the question? The Danish one that shows 3% effectiveness? Or the Bangladesh one that shows 11%?

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/masks-protect-sch... Also the minor detail that countries with masking cultures - like Japan - have relatively excellent Covid stats with minimal deaths. Honestly, we're through the looking glass if we're even pretending there's any kind of debate about this. Masks work for adults. Period. There are tens of papers proving that now. Any good faith web search will find them. F…

I'm not sure how "we're through the looking glass" because there is still debate on the issue, the Atlantic article lays out pretty strong evidence to suggest there is at the very least still plenty of room for debate. Further I don't understand how debating issues is "human-hostile" as you put it. All public measures should continuously be up for debate.

Re: The case against masks at school

#124

Post by skrbjc » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 5:59 PM UTC

aeternum wrote: post #20

criddell wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a mostly positive opinion on the CDC and I wonder if some of the problems are a result of political influence? The WHO and their fight against the idea that COVID is airborne is even more confusing to me. It felt like they didn't even want the idea discussed.

What gives you a positive opinion of the CDC? By their own admission they have lied to the public multiple times. That's not something that is indicative of good leadership, even if supposedly done for benevolent reasons.

This is one of my main qualms with how public health does their work. Lying is justified if you think it will convince more people to do something that will improve metrics at a population level. Maybe that works for a period of time, but once people find out, it destroys their credibility.

Re: The case against masks at school

#125

Post by skrbjc » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 6:02 PM UTC

zdragnar wrote: post #73

zemvpferreira wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mix in society, wear masks everywhere, and have yet to contract coronavirus.

I've been exposed to covid-positive people multiple times in my home (each time they found out they were positive after), no masking involved. I get tested after each exposure and have yet to get it either. Wearing masks and not catching covid is like wearing a bandana and not getting into a bike accident. It is an extremely contagious aerosolized virus that cloth masks simply aren't sufficient to stop. Meanwhile, th…

Funnily enough, I've seen many people riding bikes in the street with no helmet, but wearing a cloth mask.

Re: The case against masks at school

#126

Post by nradov » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 6:04 PM UTC

usefulcat wrote: post #19

The article talks a lot about how there's little or no evidence showing benefits of masking for kids, and also talks a lot about the unknown long-term effects of masking on kids. However, as with so many articles trying to make a point or persuade people, it barely mentions at all the unknown long-term effects of covid. I'm willing to be persuaded by evidence, but (for me) any piece that fails to address such an obvi…

That's a non sequitur. Forcing children to wear masks in schools won't prevent them from being exposed to SARS-CoV-2. The virus is highly contagious and can never be eradicated, so just because there might be some long-term effects for a minority of patients (as with any viral infection) that's not a valid reason to continue mask mandates.

We obviously can't expect healthy children to wear masks forever. That would be absurd and dystopian. So what are the exit criteria?

Re: The case against masks at school

#127

Post by fifteenforty » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 6:08 PM UTC

aidenn0 wrote: post #86

fifteenforty wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What type of mask is she wearing?

She switched from cloth to paper and it did improve things somewhat; I think a lot of the effect is that it seals less on the side though, so the results of them requiring masks outside is that my daughter is wearing a less effective mask inside.

Have you tried her in an N95?

Re: The case against masks at school

#128

Post by skrbjc » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 6:11 PM UTC

hogrider wrote: post #122

Wtf, masks absolutely work. Who is pushing this stuff and for what nefarious reasons? Do they think all children should get exposed early to the virus and then we'll develop heard immunity in decades to come? We have the vaccine for that.

It's not saying to not vaccinate kids, it's saying the evidence says masks are ineffective at preventing the spread of covid in schools, which means it's meaningless to wear them, and that there is a negative cognitive effect on kids with wearing masks, so we should weigh that.

Feel free to post a link that confirms "Wtf, masks absolutely work" in the context of kids in schools and the Omicron variant.

Re: The case against masks at school

#129

Post by Panther34543 » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 6:15 PM UTC

zdragnar wrote: post #73

zemvpferreira wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mix in society, wear masks everywhere, and have yet to contract coronavirus.

I've been exposed to covid-positive people multiple times in my home (each time they found out they were positive after), no masking involved. I get tested after each exposure and have yet to get it either. Wearing masks and not catching covid is like wearing a bandana and not getting into a bike accident. It is an extremely contagious aerosolized virus that cloth masks simply aren't sufficient to stop. Meanwhile, th…

> Meanwhile, the effects of perpetual masking are obvious- harmful to deaf people, harmful to the development of speech and socialization in children, asthmatics and more.

There's a ton more. I now have tons of facial scars due to continuous breakouts over the past two years due to masks (and, yes, I've spent about $2k trying all sorts of silk and other supposedly "comfortable" masks).

Another thing that hasn't been talked about is cartilage deformities in young children due to the pressure of masks on developing features. My sister is a plastic surgeon and she has talked about this quite a bit, but it hasn't gotten much media attention. The pressure caused by elastic loops around the ear is quite harmful to the correct development of the ear by permanently modifying the cartilage of the concha in growing children[0].

She also mentioned that there may be affects on the shape of the nose if a mask is worn tight enough. A "celestial" nose is a nose shape with an upturned tip, stereotypically considered a sign of attractiveness in many cultures and a common feature of celebrities. It's the most requested shape for those interested in rhinoplasties.

Forcing young children to wear tight masks is quite literally deforming them.

[0]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7302120

Re: The case against masks at school

#130

Post by nradov » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 6:17 PM UTC

sjg007 wrote: post #62

teepark wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But while it points out that the evidence for masks being effective is scarce, it does little to identify positive evidence that masks are specifically ineffective . So we just don't know as much as CDC's consistent guidelines seem to suggest, and it makes sense to weigh the risk. That the article neglects to frame it in this light highlights the one-sided nature.

There is plenty of evidence that masks work.

There is plenty of evidence that high quality, well fitted masks (N95 or equivalent) work in the sense of reducing the risk of transmission in any single close contact interaction. But so what? The virus is here to stay and can never be eradicated. Obviously people aren't going to spend the rest of their lives wearing masks. In fact outside the HN bubble in many areas people have already stopped. We're all going to be exposed multiple times throughout our lives no matter what. Masks can only slightly delay that at best.

Instead of fighting a futile battle by trying to prevent exposure we should instead accept that everyone will be exposed and try to maximize their odds of survival. That means encouraging eligible people to get vaccinated, and take other steps to mitigate co-morbid conditions.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/94646