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High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

mattstoller.substack.com

121–130 of 259 posts

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#121
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am someone who usually gets their beef from costco, small middle eastern markets and sometimes when its on sale at the neighborhood grocery store (Publix). Would you mind sharing in what ways what I'm consuming is trash compared to what comes from small farms?

I buy grass-fed beef from my neighbor. There's no difference as far as I can see. I like to support my neighbor, but there's no magic, no difference cooking, no startling color-change tricks as reported elsewhere in this thread.

Arguable. Non-feedlot raised animals do evidence some seasonality in the texture and flavor of the meat.

The nutritional value of the meat produced / consumed may be chemically similar although there is some research to support the higher human health benefits (CLAs, Omega 3s,Omega 9s, etc.) of grass-fed beef, but it is the stewardship used to raise those animals has a vastly different impact on the environment. Can't really speak to your neighbor in particular but you could ask him/her about rotational grazing and their antibiotic / animal healh protocols.

Just because you can't see the tail-pipe emissions coming from your car doesn't mean they aren't real and impacting your health and the viability of future generations.

Really this is a failure of the educational system in the US. If people knew the facts, they would be supporting and buying from local producer-owned cooperatives. One good example that I know of in the Upper Midwest market is https://www.wisconsingrassfed.coop/

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#122

I love raising my own meat, and look forward to being 100% self-sustainable for all meat consumption across hunting, fishing, and livestock for a family of 5. Meat processing and butchery is very rewarding. Turning a whole pig into a mix of charcuterie, roasts, and sausage doesn't take a lot of time and is completely worth it. This is the opposite of cheap, and is not a 'profitable' endeavor by any means. Buying from…

This all sounds pretty labor intensive to me. About how many hours per year do you think goes in to this? Like is this something that could be a weekend hobby? Or does it require more substantial lifestyle change?

Like anything - there's startup costs and then maintenance costs and a lot of it can be automated. But, tl;dr not much at all (10 mins/day for the bulk of the time) after infrastructure/a system is built.

I'll give you a simple example with chickens. On average, we eat a whole chicken once per week. So to be 100% self sufficient, lets say we need to grow 50 chickens.

A common cornish cross chicken goes from 0-5/6lbs in 6-8 weeks. If you want to be fair weather, then you buy in march/april, harvest in may/june. You can buy them online and they'll ship them to you direct, or in our case, to a nearby post office and we go pick them up. They cost about $1 each.

So, you have 50 chickens arriving, what do you need? A place to put them (fairly small space requirement, actually,) food, and water.

The baby chickens arrive, and you need a place to put them before they can survive the evening.

I made a simple brooder box (2'x6'x3') using 1x4 douglas fir, osb board, and some steel mesh / simple frame for a lid/roof. This took me about 2 hours to build because I didn't use any plans and kind of just winged it. I could make it in 30 mins now.

Next, I made a basic chicken tractor. This is a place for the chickens to sleep at night. Same idea as before, a simple box with some ease of access/cleaning stuff, and put it on wheels so you can move it about.

During the day, depending on your ethics, they need a place they can stretch their legs and move about that is protected from predators. In my area, I have bobcats, racoons, opossums, and hawks. And I live in a residential area, so effectively dealing with them is a huge hassle and I have to work around them. A combination of movable electrical netting and making sure your chicken tractor is raised off of the ground at night is very important. I learned this the hard way, there was a lot of very unsettling things the racoons did.

Lastly comes harvesting. It takes a couple of minutes per chicken when you're in a groove. The most time consuming is de-feathering and then vacuum sealing. You can do this all in 1 day with some friends, or spread over a few weekends if you're by yourself.

So direct answers:

> This all sounds pretty labor intensive to me

There is effectively 0 required labor until harvest, which you can outsource too. You can buy all of the stuff I mentioned for higher startup costs if you want.

> About how many hours per year do you think goes in to this?

Let's be very conservative and say 20 minutes/day for 8 weeks. Then 10 minutes per chicken. 8x7x20/60=~19 hours, +9 hours for processing, 25-30 hours a year

> Like is this something that could be a weekend hobby?

A small daily chore like working out or taking a shower. The downside is no (long) vacation during grow/harvest.

> Or does it require more substantial lifestyle change?

The biggest lifestyle change I have seen is people understanding where their food comes from and coming to terms with the fact that in order to eat meat, an animal has to die. If you're over this hump, and have a little space that you're willing to dedicate to this, no change is required.

Sorry for the essay, hope this helps.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

fellow small farmer(live stock only) with a day gig. The only benefit to having a small farm these days is it provides a tax shelter, and an enjoyable(yet difficult) hobby. Even if you outright own the land, by the time you figure in maintenance and equipment on any cattle farm under 500-1000 head of cattle you simply can't turn a profit in a meaningful way. What you CAN do is use it as a tax shelter where you sorta…

Why is all the pasture raised, permaculture, organic blah blah stuff all so expensive if it’s not profitable? If I’m paying $12 for a dozen eggs when I can get non-sustainable, conventionally raised eggs from some megacorp for $3 then where is all the money going? Any consumer paying $12 for eggs certainly wouldn’t mind $13, which could then be profit.

Holy christ. If I could $12/dozen for my eggs I'd start raising chickens again! Where are you buying those?

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The food in stores is cheap. And that matters to consumers more than whatever alleged quality small-time farmers can produce (was food actually better a hundred years ago? Doubt).

I highly recommend you to visit third world countries and sample food from there. I grew up in Burma and have been living in the US for almost 20 years. Every time I went back to Burma, I buy milk, egg and chicken from local markets. I boil the milk and egg, and make curry out of the chicken. The milk is super creamy and if you boil it for 2-3 times, you get like 1-cm creamy foam on top. I tried the same with Costco…

> The milk is super creamy and if you boil it for 2-3 times, you get like 1-cm creamy foam on top. I tried the same with Costco whole milk, and didn't get as much cream/richness.

That's probably because supermarket milk is typically homogenised, meaning it's been put through a very narrow funnel with great force until the fat globules break and become more evenly distributed throughout the milk. That's why supermarket milk doesn't have "cream on top". The fat stays suspended in the milk liquid and doesn't rise to the top (as is normal with milk that hasn't been homogenised). Homogenisation also usually standardises milk to a certain fat content while the excess goes to make butter, so you can expect homogenised milk to be just exactly 3.5% in fat (for cow's milk) while the milk you get from your local farmer is going to vary a lot above and below that, depending on season, feed, reproductive cycle and activity of the animals etc.

I suspect that the fishy smell in US chicken is because of a chlorine wash. There was a bit of a scandal about it recently in Britain.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#126
post #97

As a small farmer, I can tell you: independent small-scale farming is not profitable in any meaningful manner. Government is actively killing it, by giving away every possible concession to Big Ag. The food in stores is pretty much all garbage compared to food raised on small farms. It sickens me to see things go this way, but this is the reality that we have created.

> Government is actively killing it, by giving away every possible concession to Big Ag. If government were out of the picture would small-scale farmers be better able to compete with Big Ag? If you were making policy, what would you have government do instead?

1. Simplify the tax code for farms under a certain size. Farms basically require itemization for every expense.

2. Right to repair. Seriously, they cannot repair their own equipment.

3. Add legal protections against GMO companies. Or other large private companies. More than a few small farms have be buried in legal bills.

4. Stop putting corn ethanal in gas. Its a poor use of fresh water. It’s provided almost universally by large farms. It reduces the quality of gas. We are much less dependent on foreign energy than when this was put in place. I guess this one will mostly sort itself out with electrification.

5. Universal healthcare. Or affordable healthcare for small businesses in general. Farming is very accident prone work.

6. Put stricter health regulations on animal husbandry. Big ag animal farms are some of the least sanitary work environments in the US, I’d rather shovel coal.

Edit: Bonus, consider loosening drone regulations for rural areas. They are valuable surveying tools, and line of sight requirements is unnecessary in many agri situations

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#127

As a small farmer, I can tell you: independent small-scale farming is not profitable in any meaningful manner. Government is actively killing it, by giving away every possible concession to Big Ag. The food in stores is pretty much all garbage compared to food raised on small farms. It sickens me to see things go this way, but this is the reality that we have created.

I'm not sure the government is actively killing it... they just aren't doing anything about the oligopolies and collusion that have always developed in these sort of situations. That may seem subtle, but many argue that we want to make the government do less to "keep them off our backs". Well, guess what these are the consequences. These markets may be "free", but they are not efficient, in fact they are arguably corrupt. The economists have also figured out what side their bread is buttered on.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#128
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not band together and force better conditions by the corporations? This is what unions are for, a place for labor to bargain fairly compared to capital. This will also have the nice benefit of raising the tide to lift all boats, rather than trying to diverge and course correct by oneself (raising cattle isn't comparable in skills or costs to running a meat packing facility).

> This is what unions are for They're independent companies. They aren't employed by anyone. They aren't labour they're owners. That's not what a union is for.

I think they are picturing a “union of small companies” organizing to demand better terms from the large companies they do business with. (Without merging)

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#129

I love raising my own meat, and look forward to being 100% self-sustainable for all meat consumption across hunting, fishing, and livestock for a family of 5. Meat processing and butchery is very rewarding. Turning a whole pig into a mix of charcuterie, roasts, and sausage doesn't take a lot of time and is completely worth it. This is the opposite of cheap, and is not a 'profitable' endeavor by any means. Buying from…

This all sounds pretty labor intensive to me. About how many hours per year do you think goes in to this? Like is this something that could be a weekend hobby? Or does it require more substantial lifestyle change?

Raising animals is definitely not a weekend hobby. It can be a hobby, but it's daily work that you really can't avoid. When people start waxing poetic about how nice it is to live "out here" and how beautiful horses are, I usually mumble something about how it's nice until it's -20F and the snow is coming down horizontally and they still have to be fed and watered. Water freezes pretty fast at -20.

I'd say that the most substantial lifestyle change is that it becomes very difficult to go anywhere for more than a day. Depends on the animals of course: you can leave chickens with a few days of water and feed if it's above freezing. Anything larger and you have to at least have someone check in on your animals to be sure they haven't escaped: a few head of cattle/horses on a main road is a major hazard. And that's assuming the animals are fine with just pasture and you can leave enough water for the time you're gone.

That's best case scenario. As a rule of thumb, your animals will need to be fed/watered daily and that's usually when you have a chance to make sure that one of them isn't injured in some way. So going on vacation generally means that you either pay someone to do it, or you exchange favors with someone in a similar situation.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#130

As a small farmer, I can tell you: independent small-scale farming is not profitable in any meaningful manner. Government is actively killing it, by giving away every possible concession to Big Ag. The food in stores is pretty much all garbage compared to food raised on small farms. It sickens me to see things go this way, but this is the reality that we have created.

So do you want more regulation?
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