New Zealand plans to make it illegal for kids to buy cigarettes – for life

Post by maccolgan » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

cies wrote: post #47

It will only get cooler. And you put age discrimination in the law book. Sure there is some age discrimination in the lawbooks for kids/elderly have some different laws applicable to them. But this is discriminating against a generation not an age group. I prefer the "tax the shit out of it" approach. Possibly with a tax that is calculated based on your wealth/income (as all discouragements taxes should be, or they o…

Post by NoSorryCannot » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 5:39 PM UTC

dredmorbius wrote: post #120

NoSorryCannot wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That definition is overly simplified and derives directly from the controlled substances act and similar programs, which refer to many drugs but especially opiates as "narcotics". Nicotine is not a "controlled substance".

Regarding the first: Contrary to your earlier assertion, however, it is an extant definition in a sense of the word. You don't like the definition. The definition, however, exists. Regarding the second: We're discussing its regulation here and now. (Updated to clarify which aspects of comment I'm responding to, and how.)

Post by baud147258 » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 5:45 PM UTC

foxrider wrote: post #74

swlp21 wrote: post #17

The price increases (10% per year since 2011) have created a market for stolen and counterfeit cigarettes already. Creating a slow-roll prohibition will not stop people wanting to smoke tobacco products - in fact, previous evidence (e.g. alcohol and cannabis as things most people know about) shows that people are motivated to partake by the very idea of it being illicit. The product of US prohibition was the creation…

While both alcohol and weed can give you altered reality experience, tobacco can not. Tobacco smokers are a major annoyance and a nuisance to the public, on top of killing themselves slowly, so if the tobacco cigarrets would've been strictly illegal and you coldn't smoke in public I can't imagine people willing to organize into small secret clubs to smoke a few cigs a day in a place you have to go to.

Post by maccolgan » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 5:50 PM UTC

benmmurphy wrote: post #76

wepple wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One consideration here that many folks (US in particular) may not consider is that smokers put a very substantial burden on the NZ healthcare system which is taxpayer funded. Of course, there are plenty of counter examples to this such as obesity (NZ is #2 in obesity only to US at #1) where the costs don’t result in any substantial regulation or prohibition. Alcohol is a ginormous topic too, NZ has an extremely unhea…

I remember looking at the figures ages ago for a different country and if you netted everything out smoking saved the government money. For example here is something from the UK from the IEA: https://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2017/08/smoking-and-dri... The Smoking and the Public Purse report argues that the government spends £3.6bn treating smoking-related diseases on the NHS and up to £1bn collecting cigarette bu…

Post by elzbardico » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 5:55 PM UTC

r00fus wrote: post #60

elzbardico wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, till the day the concept of being addicted to read the wrong books arise.

That's an inapt slippery slope analogy. The supposed bastion of freedom, the US, still has states where books are banned. And abortion is functionally banned. Not all freedoms are the same. Losing one doesn't equate with losing all of them. Equating the freedom to become addicted (or indebted perpetually) is not the same as the freedom to read or travel, etc.