An introverts guide to increasing energy • Hacker News Board

Re: An introverts guide to increasing energy

#121

Post by naasking » Mon, Nov 22, 2021, 1:48 AM UTC

leobg wrote: post #109

hliyan wrote: post #31

For over 25 years I wondered why social events drained me and what neurological phenomenon the metaphor "energy" stood for (which this article and many others like it don't seem to bother investigating). I've recently come to realize that it's the extent to which you see other human beings as a threat, which causes your brain to keep its "shields up", which can feel exhausting. After a observing myself a lot during s…

There is this phenomenon called “the mere exposure effect“: Merely exposing yourself to a situation again and again will lessen your anxiety and put the kinds of automations in place, in terms of perception and behavior, that will make you feel “comfortable“ (i.e. allow you to handle the baseline situation on autopilot, so your energy is free for higher level functions, such as strategy or simply enjoyment). This mea…

I think the exposure effect only works well if your exposure was neutral or positive, or how you weight negative vs. neutral or positive experiences. For people who ingrain negative experiences more strongly than the others, one bad experience could outweigh 10 neutral or positive ones.

So if introversion is some strong social anxiety, and you have one bad social experience at a bar, it could just reinforce that anxiety out of proportion to the actual reality. The brain isn't always rational unfortunately.

Re: An introverts guide to increasing energy

#122

Post by naasking » Mon, Nov 22, 2021, 2:00 AM UTC

ca98am79 wrote: post #69

hliyan wrote: post #31

For over 25 years I wondered why social events drained me and what neurological phenomenon the metaphor "energy" stood for (which this article and many others like it don't seem to bother investigating). I've recently come to realize that it's the extent to which you see other human beings as a threat, which causes your brain to keep its "shields up", which can feel exhausting. After a observing myself a lot during s…

For me the draining part is small talk. I don't really feel confident in my ability to small talk and I also really don't like to do it. But I feel it is a kind of bonding ritual between strangers that I don't understand. I feel that most people don't even think about it and can just do it naturally, like riding a bike. But for me it is like juggling ten balls. Even checking out groceries with a cashier is really dra…

> But I feel it is a kind of bonding ritual between strangers that I don't understand.

I see it as exploratory. You're just trying to find some common ground with someone you don't know. Eventually you'll find something you both like/dislike and can bond over that a little.

You can usually skip a lot of it and just ask about/mention something that interests you and if they've ever done/seen/heard/read about anything like that. If you open up about something personal, people usually respond in kind.

For instance, I've always wanted to go hang gliding and after being cooped up during the pandemic, I took the opportunity to go when restrictions relaxed a bit. Did you anything as soon as things opened up again? The pandemic is a shared misery we can all bond over.

Re: An introverts guide to increasing energy

#123

Post by dgreensp » Mon, Nov 22, 2021, 2:19 AM UTC

enduser wrote: post #62

Technically introversion refers to people whose dominant cognitive function[1] has an “internal model” of the world, vs. extraversion where the world is the model. Introverts need down time because it takes processing time to update the internal model in response to stimuli. Extraverts don’t like being alone because when the world around them is empty “nothing is happening”. It’s not the enjoyment of company or solit…

The definitions given in the article are the ones I would give; see e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraversion_and_introversion#...

I'm not familiar with the theory that only introverts have an "internal model" that needs updating. I would think we all run on models at various levels of cognition (given that the brain doesn't contain any actual "external world" in it, only models), which we update both in real-time and in later processing (such as while sleeping).

Re: An introverts guide to increasing energy

#124

Post by dgreensp » Mon, Nov 22, 2021, 2:28 AM UTC

jplr8922 wrote: post #59

I've read 'Personality Types' (the book where Jung define introversion and extraversion) many times by now. It is hard to understand at first, by now I am amazed about how his concepts are interpreted differently than what he intended. Introversion is a kind of filtering mechanism where your self concept (ego) overweight the importance of internal stimulis over external one (and vice versa for an extrovert). If a sub…

I don't think extraverts need any feeling of obligation to go to a party, that's just their version of curling up alone with a book.

In my experience, the most striking difference between extraverts and introverts is that extraverts enjoy the stimulation of being around people (whether it's a party, a small group, or one on one), potentially from the moment they get up to the moment they go to sleep. They might live with three housemates, meet someone for breakfast, have a phone call with a friend just to chat, and on and on, and they don't feel drained, they feel energized. It's as natural as being alone all day is for an introvert.

Re: An introverts guide to increasing energy

#125

Post by vinay427 » Mon, Nov 22, 2021, 6:37 AM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #67

mckirk wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you elaborate a bit on how you weren't allowed to listen to your body as a child, and what kind of difficult real-time decisions that meant you had to make? Also, how did you work on improving that as an adult?

Not the poster, but it's very familiar to me. I grew up in the midwest, and a friend from there says, "In the midwest we don't have bodies or feelings." As a kid, I clearly remember having an epiphany: when people asked my how I was doing, they did not actually want to know how I was doing. There were a number of appropriate answers, "fine" first among them. If you watch the first 20 seconds of "How to Speak Minnesot…

> After 20 years in California, I have unlearned a lot of this.

Hmm, I’m curious which part. If anything, I seem to notice even more of this tendency in much of Southern California compared to the upper Midwest where I also grew up. The opposite is probably the case in the SF area, however, and possibly the Bay Area in general.

Re: An introverts guide to increasing energy

#126

Post by 1123581321 » Mon, Nov 22, 2021, 7:40 AM UTC

tartoran wrote: post #118

Vedor wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious, have you checked your hearing recently? For a long time I believed that I can't hear anything in large groups because I'm introvert (which I am) and large groups exhaust me. Turned out to be hearing problem. And the thing is that I never had a feeling that my hearing is poor. But some day I got tinnitus that did not go away over time, and after some tests I learnt that I'm almost deaf for high-frequency…

My hearing isn’t too bad, I tested it and I can hear okay. My problem is decoding speech in noisy environments, it is somewhat delayed and iffy at times. I am more inclined to think theres an audio processing issue. Haven’t tested for CAPD - central audio processing syndrome and am not sure it would help me any if I have it. Im at the stage of accepting my weaknesses, I used to be hard on myself before.

If you have CAPD, you can get a small ear filter which will actually help. (I have it and was diagnosed.)

Re: An introverts guide to increasing energy

#127

Post by xboxnolifes » Mon, Nov 22, 2021, 7:56 AM UTC

MichailP wrote: post #73

hliyan wrote: post #31

For over 25 years I wondered why social events drained me and what neurological phenomenon the metaphor "energy" stood for (which this article and many others like it don't seem to bother investigating). I've recently come to realize that it's the extent to which you see other human beings as a threat, which causes your brain to keep its "shields up", which can feel exhausting. After a observing myself a lot during s…

I must add that this feeling "people judging you" is mostly YOU. That is we THINK what other people are thinking, as we don't have direct link to their brains. The intensity of this feeling is related to your personal feeling of your self worth, which again doesn't have much to do with any realistic criteria. From my personal experience people love you, find you interesting, miss you when you are not there, etc. much…

I very much disagree. Near every single person I talk to on any regular basis talks about other people "behind their back", whether it is to say good thing or bad things. Those are judgements.

For every comment I have ever read about how "that person working at X store doesn't care about what you do / buy", I know a handful of people who are that person working at that store who talk to no end about the various kinds of customers who enter their store. It's great feel good motivator to those who are oblivious to the lie, but it is a lie none the less.

Re: An introverts guide to increasing energy

#128

Post by xboxnolifes » Mon, Nov 22, 2021, 8:13 AM UTC

hliyan wrote: post #44

mikevm wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also possible that you might have social anxiety, btw. Regarding introversion and "energy" - https://www.quietrev.com/why-introverts-and-extroverts-are-d...

Would you say introversion and social anxiety are two distinct phenomena? I always viewed these as existing on the same spectrum.

tl;dr: Enjoying being alone for long periods of time makes me an introvert. Being actively anxious at the thought of interacting with someone I don't know is social anxiety.

---

I think they are definitely different things. This is something I've thought about for a long time. I've come to and changed my opinion on the distinction many times throughout my life, and I probably will change them again, but I currently like how I see them.

So, here's my journey, opinions, and why I think they are different:

I used to think I was just a little shy, at least that's what other people said when they described me. I eventually came to terms that I was shy. I was just another kid who was quiet at first but would warm up to people.

Then I came across the idea of being introverted, and I was self-labeled an introvert. Other people also seemed to think so and also called me this. Same thing, I was generally quiet, but it was now because "talking to people drained my energy, and isolation regenerated it".

But then I realized I did enjoy talking to certain people, but I was scared to. I came across the idea of the "shy extrovert". For a short while I thought this was me. After a while this labeled made less and less sense to me, but I kept it since I didn't really have a better label.

Finally, I realized I had social anxiety. I realized that my fear of asking questions, or going to the gym, or to schedule appointments on the phone, or to really do any uncertain human interaction was not introversion. It was social anxiety.

However, I still feel that my contentment with being alone for long periods of time is not due to social anxiety. I still eventually become lonely. When I'm lonely, my social anxiety hinders me from seeking human interaction, but it was the introversion in the first place that enjoyed the solitude.

Re: An introverts guide to increasing energy

#129

Post by hiepph » Mon, Nov 22, 2021, 9:07 AM UTC

paulsutter wrote: post #52

hliyan wrote: post #31

For over 25 years I wondered why social events drained me and what neurological phenomenon the metaphor "energy" stood for (which this article and many others like it don't seem to bother investigating). I've recently come to realize that it's the extent to which you see other human beings as a threat, which causes your brain to keep its "shields up", which can feel exhausting. After a observing myself a lot during s…

Public speaking seemed impossible to me until I actually had something I wanted to say to a given group of people. Then it felt natural. The same applies to parties or events. I enjoy them if I have something I want to discuss with the people present Of course either case is fairly rare for me

This is actually my case, some people saw me present a topic I love to talk about would say I'm an extrovert. But in reality I rarely speak a thing in a debate about a problem I don't really care about, so people call me an introvert. I gradually don't care about the opinions anymore and just want to preserve my energy for the things I really care about.

Re: An introverts guide to increasing energy

#130

Post by vidarh » Mon, Nov 22, 2021, 11:40 AM UTC

hliyan wrote: post #31

For over 25 years I wondered why social events drained me and what neurological phenomenon the metaphor "energy" stood for (which this article and many others like it don't seem to bother investigating). I've recently come to realize that it's the extent to which you see other human beings as a threat, which causes your brain to keep its "shields up", which can feel exhausting. After a observing myself a lot during s…

This is interesting, but I don't think it is universal. Specifically I don't think it matches me. I find social contact even with e.g. my girlfriend or my son tiring. Even though e.g. my girlfriend is amazed at just how relaxed I seem to be. And in a sense it's true - around people I am comfortable with nothing will faze me. I can sit in a meditative state with total chaos around me with ease. But whenever I participate in any way, it drains me. Doesn't mean I don't like spending time with people, but if I participate in conversation or engage in any kind of way, no matter how enjoyable or chilled out the situation might be, I need alone time afterwards. Lockdown was so relaxing for me. Though it seems to be predominantly in-person contact (though I don't really know where e.g. video calls fall), sometimes even online interactions drain me and I just totally shut down and ignore the outside world to relax.

As an interesting addendum: To me the type of social events that are most draining are opposite of yours. When I can set myself apart (such as holding speeches, even in front of huge crowds) or by "drowning in the crowd" like in large events where I can just ignore everyone most of the time, I'm fine. It's like being alone. I held the commencement speech for my university in front of thousands of students, faculty and a TV crew. Piece of cake. Small groups where people expect interactions, on the other hand, even if they are people I'd totally trust and where I can let my guard down totally, are brutal on my energy levels and far more stressful as well.