An introverts guide to increasing energy • Hacker News Board

Re: An introverts guide to increasing energy

#101

Post by tgaj » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 8:32 PM UTC

tartoran wrote: post #42

hliyan wrote: post #31

For over 25 years I wondered why social events drained me and what neurological phenomenon the metaphor "energy" stood for (which this article and many others like it don't seem to bother investigating). I've recently come to realize that it's the extent to which you see other human beings as a threat, which causes your brain to keep its "shields up", which can feel exhausting. After a observing myself a lot during s…

I actually find large groups distracting and disorienting to the point that I have a hard time decoding conversations and that extra churn is what exhausts me in the first place. Also, trying to keep the mask on is also a bit exhausting so the moment I tell everyone that Im introverted and no longer have to pretend Im not things start to improve a bit. Having said that, I think you have a point with the threat percep…

It could be also symptom of ADHD.

Re: An introverts guide to increasing energy

#102

Post by Zircom » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 8:32 PM UTC

amelius wrote: post #3

Parties also generally drain my energy. But I've found out something interesting. If people start playing games at a party (like card games), or if there is a discussion of a topic that really interests me, then my energy is magically replenished. Weird.

This is me exactly. I hate parties, love game nights. As long as there's something everyone is doing I can participate in, I have no problem being part of the conversation, even if the subject has nothing to do with the actual game we're playing. But as soon as there's nothing to do and I just have to talk to people and that's the only thing that's going on, I can immediately feel my energy just draining away.

Re: An introverts guide to increasing energy

#103

Post by wvh » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 8:34 PM UTC

hliyan wrote: post #31

For over 25 years I wondered why social events drained me and what neurological phenomenon the metaphor "energy" stood for (which this article and many others like it don't seem to bother investigating). I've recently come to realize that it's the extent to which you see other human beings as a threat, which causes your brain to keep its "shields up", which can feel exhausting. After a observing myself a lot during s…

I concur with what you say, but rather than social threat, I think of it as over-stimulation and sensory overload. Rather than being socially introverted, to me the challenge is dealing with the sounds, visuals, distractions and general chaos of most social situations. It feels more like having a tennis ball cannon aimed at ones head rather than having to keep ones guard up and shield oneself against others.

Sounds like there are different ways to define or come across as introverted. I attribute my disposition more to sensory sensitivity reminiscent of autistic or ADHD-like traits rather than social anxiety.

Re: An introverts guide to increasing energy

#104

Post by tgaj » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 8:36 PM UTC

hliyan wrote: post #44

mikevm wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also possible that you might have social anxiety, btw. Regarding introversion and "energy" - https://www.quietrev.com/why-introverts-and-extroverts-are-d...

Would you say introversion and social anxiety are two distinct phenomena? I always viewed these as existing on the same spectrum.

I have this mental model that introversion is something you are born with and social anxiety is something that you can get during you life (for example, because of how other people treated you)

Re: An introverts guide to increasing energy

#105

Post by tgaj » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 8:43 PM UTC

08-15 wrote: post #57

mattlondon wrote: post #8

It bothers me when people just say "you are introverted" or "you are extroverted". Labelling people like this (i.e. a binary one or the other choice) is not helpful. Don't 100% match the definition for X? Then you are Y! I think in reality it is better to acknowledge that - like many things - introversion/extroversion is a broad scale with many shades of grey, and your personal position on the scale can and does chan…

You are obviously an NF temperament, most probably the ENFP personality type. Extraversion/Introversion is the first distinction of the Myers Briggs Type Indicator. I find it remarkable that exactly the people who get incensed at the MBTI "because everything is shades of gray and you can't sort people into neat 16 bins", are those who are at the very very end of at least two of the four scales. > don't let over peopl…

I will never understand the idea of "type". There are like billions people on earth and for some some reason all of them can be described as one of 16 types. Just that. There so many reasons that people do what they do and behave like they behave that you can't just simplify that to 16.

Re: An introverts guide to increasing energy

#106

Post by tgaj » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 8:47 PM UTC

gdsdfe wrote: post #26

For the nth time the Myers-Briggs test is bogus, there's no scientific evidence that it works!

Some people feel better with simple labels, I get it. That's how our brain works. But still Myers-Briggs is only a toy and some people use it like a sophisticated tool.

Re: An introverts guide to increasing energy

#107

Post by rsyring » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 8:51 PM UTC

Buttons840 wrote: post #84

hliyan wrote: post #31

For over 25 years I wondered why social events drained me and what neurological phenomenon the metaphor "energy" stood for (which this article and many others like it don't seem to bother investigating). I've recently come to realize that it's the extent to which you see other human beings as a threat, which causes your brain to keep its "shields up", which can feel exhausting. After a observing myself a lot during s…

> I've recently come to realize that it's the extent to which you see other human beings as a threat, which causes your brain to keep its "shields up" Thanks for this insight. It says clearly something I've been feeling, but haven't articulated. I've thought about taking some martial arts classes, perhaps jiu-jitsu because I know they "roll" from the first class onwards. I think it would help me get over part of my a…

I did BJJ and Pankration for a number of years, rolled a lot. There are plenty of benefits but, at least for me, it didn't change my general dislike/discomfort with small talk, people, crowds, etc. It got me used to large heavy sweaty guys being really close, sometimes smothering me, but that just doesn't translate to those other situations for me. Ironically, I'm usually more comfortable rolling with a stranger than talking with them.

Some BJJ groups will be great places to learn at your age. Look for people who demonstrate care that you are new, teach you how to defend yourself, and are generally devoid of ego/machoism. Especially the senior people leading the training. Gracie BJJ will teach you technique for months before they let you roll. That's probably not a bad thing because you'll learn how to do things and will be less likely to hurt yourself and will have time to build conditioning.

Re: An introverts guide to increasing energy

#108

Post by GDC7 » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 8:55 PM UTC

MichailP wrote: post #73

hliyan wrote: post #31

For over 25 years I wondered why social events drained me and what neurological phenomenon the metaphor "energy" stood for (which this article and many others like it don't seem to bother investigating). I've recently come to realize that it's the extent to which you see other human beings as a threat, which causes your brain to keep its "shields up", which can feel exhausting. After a observing myself a lot during s…

I must add that this feeling "people judging you" is mostly YOU. That is we THINK what other people are thinking, as we don't have direct link to their brains. The intensity of this feeling is related to your personal feeling of your self worth, which again doesn't have much to do with any realistic criteria. From my personal experience people love you, find you interesting, miss you when you are not there, etc. much…

> The intensity of this feeling is related to your personal feeling of your self worth

Calling none sense. IT'S NOT IN YOUR HEAD!

There are objective levels to it.

Say I work in film making and specialize on actors wardrobes , I can make a good living, perhaps even reach a 7 figures net worth.

Fast forward award seasons comes around, during the afterparties everybody wants to talk and interact with the stars. Even if in my head my self-confidence is sky high and I am super social, approaching everybody, these people would avoid me and judge me as a weirdo, both during the party (to my face) and afterwards.

In that moment I am an obstacle to their real social goal of the night: interacting with Jennifer Lawrance, taking a picture with her, or even getting any reaction from her (including negative ones and extremely negative ones such as flipping the bird or telling people off).

This is an extreme example , of course, but generally people go to social gatherings and have a pretty clear idea of the person or even the profile of people they want to interact with.

This means that people do , in fact, judge or pre-classify or create standings in their minds, and if you aren't one of those sought after people then an interaction with you will most likely received as a disappointment compared to an ideal scenario that they had built in their own minds.

This means that you'd be judged.

Re: An introverts guide to increasing energy

#109

Post by leobg » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 8:57 PM UTC

hliyan wrote: post #31

For over 25 years I wondered why social events drained me and what neurological phenomenon the metaphor "energy" stood for (which this article and many others like it don't seem to bother investigating). I've recently come to realize that it's the extent to which you see other human beings as a threat, which causes your brain to keep its "shields up", which can feel exhausting. After a observing myself a lot during s…

There is this phenomenon called “the mere exposure effect“:

Merely exposing yourself to a situation again and again will lessen your anxiety and put the kinds of automations in place, in terms of perception and behavior, that will make you feel “comfortable“ (i.e. allow you to handle the baseline situation on autopilot, so your energy is free for higher level functions, such as strategy or simply enjoyment).

This means that, being an introvert, you can make yourself tremendously more comfortable in extraverted [1] situations simply by going to a bar or a coffee shop twice a week and spending time there. Simply being there slowly gets you used to the environment. (It’s very similar to desensitizing a dog to fireworks, for example. Sorry! :))

Also, I suspect this is what actually creates these differences in personality types in the first place. Some people get really comfortable being by themselves, and others get really comfortable being around others. It starts in early childhood, and becomes a self reinforcing cycle. In many ways, it makes sense to do more of that which you’re already good at. Changing your environment is often more profitable than trying to change yourself.

Re: An introverts guide to increasing energy

#110

Post by pessimizer » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 9:09 PM UTC

brhsagain wrote: post #77

ca98am79 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me the draining part is small talk. I don't really feel confident in my ability to small talk and I also really don't like to do it. But I feel it is a kind of bonding ritual between strangers that I don't understand. I feel that most people don't even think about it and can just do it naturally, like riding a bike. But for me it is like juggling ten balls. Even checking out groceries with a cashier is really dra…

I used to feel this way until I heard an explanation that made it click ever since. Small talk is a channel with a single bit of information, which is "I am not your enemy." This is different from "I am your friend." It's the same reason monkeys pull bugs out of each other's fur. All people want from you when making small talk is for you to talk about the inane things in your life with a positive energy. The inane ch…

> The inane chatter shows you're normal and relatable (you're someone who's going to enjoy the latest TV show and get burgers for lunch, instead of shooting up a school)

"Relatable" carries a lot of water here. If you're a woman in a roomful of men, somebody who grew up rich in a room full of people who grew up poor, or maybe don't enjoy watching the latest TV shows or eating burgers, this doesn't reduce the stress of small talk.

I totally agree with what you're saying about the goal of small talk, but that the goal is simple authentication doesn't make the implementation simple or hacking it trivial. People are sniffing around for in-group stuff, and its a test you can fail quickly.

Also, if you fail, now you've fallen into the "shooting up a school" category.

So my answer: talk about the weather today, in the recent past, and projected into the future. Discuss how you both arrived at the place you are at (traffic, routes...) If you were both around when someone else said something interesting earlier, talk about that. Seize upon any answers that hint at something the person you're talking to is passionate about but that you are not passionate about. Ask questions about those. If they start to bore you to death, act like it's all too complicated for you, and either GOTO 10 or drift away. If they don't, then you're having a good time and learning something you didn't know before.