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Don’t be spooky

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Re: Don’t be spooky

#121

Post by mavelikara »

bookface wrote: post #89
webtopf wrote: post #5

It works the other way around too. As a manager, when some of my employees sent me messages like: "Can we talk when you have some time?" One of my immediate fears was that they are quitting because he found another job. That happened only once, the other 300 times it was just about something they were working on and needed more information.

I don't take as much issue with this happening the other way around. It's a rare opportunity for the information asymmetry shoe to be on the other foot.

> I don't take as much issue with this happening the other way around.

That seems to imply that your opposition to a person not being spooked is not a moral one. Please tell us more about it.

Re: Don’t be spooky

#122

Post by mavelikara »

Ansil849 wrote: post #61

Tons of comments here agreeing that this kind of vague messaging is to be avoided (and I'll toss my comment in there as also being in agreement). But....clearly there are people out there who use this kind of communicaton, some of them doubtlessly reading this thread. So my question is: those who do say vagaries like "let's talk when you have a minute* - why? What is your intention?

Multiple others have commented on this already here, but I will chime in.

The intent is to deliver a message in person over a synchronous communication. In many cases, dropping a message over Slack, text, or email, does not feel fair to the other person. For example, "Hey, I need to talk about my departure from the team when you have a minute".

Re: Don’t be spooky

#123

Post by kayodelycaon »

logicchop wrote: post #15

The way I see it, if "let's talk when you get a minute" comes across as spooky that means you already have a communication breakdown and mistrust has already blossomed. Here's a slightly different scenario: You have a disagreement with management; there are many subsequent conversations happening behind the scenes; but no one keeps you in the loop or updates you on what is being decided. In that situation, practicall…

I will never make the mistake of trusting management again.

No matter how good my relationship is with my direct manager, someone above them can decide I’m gone and neither my boss or my boss’s boss can do anything to save me. Happened to me twice.

Every time some bad happened in my career, it’s been preceded by vague request to talk.

This isn’t helped by having an unrelated anxiety disorder.

Re: Don’t be spooky

#124

Post by verve_rat »

Jolter wrote: post #117
maneesh wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about not bringing a gun into work and "going postal" (named after a situation with a post office employee)

Why would that be a more likely situation if you’re escorted out of the building on a Friday than it would be on a Tuesday?

So I'm a little confused. This whole thread implies that in the States you get laid off and ushered out of the building on the same day? Is that common practice?

I understand that most(?) Of the US is an "at will" jurisdiction, but where I'm from all employment contracts have a notice period in them. So when employment is terminated, by either party, there is a 2-4 week period where the employee works out their notice.

Often in the case of lay offs there would be plenty of heads up before the official notice period as well.

Only in the most egregious cases of misconduct could an employer get away without a notice period.

Re: Don’t be spooky

#125

Post by b112 »

Jolter wrote: post #117
maneesh wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about not bringing a gun into work and "going postal" (named after a situation with a post office employee)

Why would that be a more likely situation if you’re escorted out of the building on a Friday than it would be on a Tuesday?

Many people have weekend off. This includes friends, lived ones, family, thus, a layoff on Friday, can mean time spend with these people instead of sitting home alone on a weekday, mad?

Postal, or just depressed with the news, in may help to have higher odds for the comfort of others.

Re: Don’t be spooky

#126

Post by b112 »

verve_rat wrote: post #124
Jolter wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would that be a more likely situation if you’re escorted out of the building on a Friday than it would be on a Tuesday?

So I'm a little confused. This whole thread implies that in the States you get laid off and ushered out of the building on the same day? Is that common practice? I understand that most(?) Of the US is an "at will" jurisdiction, but where I'm from all employment contracts have a notice period in them. So when employment is terminated, by either party, there is a 2-4 week period where the employee works out their notic…

I think this is indeed common in the US.

Re: Don’t be spooky

#127

Post by sharken »

newsbinator wrote: post #2

> When you’re communicating with your team, lead with context and reassurance. Never message someone on your team, “let’s talk when you get a minute”. That’s void of information and scary as heck! This should be engraved on a plaque in every office building.

Except when layoffs are imminent, then you see the messages mentioned in the article.

Another 'spooky' indicator is if your manager texts you with a similar urgent message.

But i wholeheartedly agree that spookiness should be confined to layoffs.

Re: Don’t be spooky

#128

Post by sharken »

dharmab wrote: post #24
koboll wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to be able to follow this advice always, but what about when, say, you're scheduling a call with your manager to let them know you're leaving the team? Do I lead with context by titling the meeting "Discuss my Departure"?

When I announced I was leaving to my team, I titled the meeting "Future of (project name)"

Another way of doing it is on the Daily Standup, when the topic moves on to Anything else?

Re: Don’t be spooky

#129

Post by Ozzie_osman »

verve_rat wrote: post #124
Jolter wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would that be a more likely situation if you’re escorted out of the building on a Friday than it would be on a Tuesday?

So I'm a little confused. This whole thread implies that in the States you get laid off and ushered out of the building on the same day? Is that common practice? I understand that most(?) Of the US is an "at will" jurisdiction, but where I'm from all employment contracts have a notice period in them. So when employment is terminated, by either party, there is a 2-4 week period where the employee works out their notic…

Getting laid off and shown the door immediately after (plus having your access to systems and buildings revoked) is very common.

The reason for this is because the HR person drafting this policy probably had someone take advantage of the window between when someone is told they are laid off and when they are actually terminated, and so the policy gets made to reduce that liability. It sucks for the 90% of people who wouldn't do anything, but that's how it works. Imagine getting told you're your laid off, then your laptop handed in before you even leave the meeting room, then a security guard or HR person escorts you to your desk to pack your things in a box before they walk you out the building.

Mind you, you'd probably still get some severance bonus or keep getting paid for weeks or months, but you just wouldn't be expected (or able) to work.

Re: Don’t be spooky

#130

Post by Waterluvian »

telman17 wrote: post #119
chollida1 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What difference does a Friday have vs a Monday if the person isn’t comming back to the office? Maybe your remembering giving as news on a Friday so it gets lost by the media over the weekend?

I'd consider it more of a respectful gesture to the person being laid off so that they have the weekend to take it all in so they're able to start their job search on Monday and make the most of the next week, should they be in a situation where they need to.

Everywhere I’ve worked, unless someone was walked out the door, it happened early in the week and they were paid to the end of the week before their severance package even began. If you’re going to lose your job, having most of a fully paid week to take it in helps soften the landing.

Layoffs on Friday are awful. People have lives. They have appointments and kids’ soccer practice and grocery shopping and such. Now they have to reconcile that they’re unemployed during those tasks?

I’d call that respectful. Well, as respectful as you can be when you lay someone off.

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