Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party • Hacker News Board

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#121

Post by didibus » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 12:51 AM UTC

Uehreka wrote: post #112

didibus wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I don't know if I buy this argument. The act of voting is just as easy, does anyone really care how the tally is calculated? With condorcet I think you can also visualize it nicely by playing a Head to Head thing and show ok A vs B, B wins. Ok B vs C, B wins, etc.

> does anyone really care how the tally is calculated? If the 2020 US election tabulation process is any indication, yes.

Well, I'm not really seeing people complain about the math itself, but instead more about fraud in the votes themselves, or machines/people cheating when tallying.

Just to be clear, the difference would be something like having to say B won because he was the most common second choice and beat every other candidates in a one on one. Versus saying B won because it had the most first choices, yet did not have a majority of first choices.

I think it's easy enough to understand that while someone had more first choices, they didn't have a majority first choices and since someone else had more second choices they took the win.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#122

Post by darkmatterrat » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 12:57 AM UTC

lalaland1125 wrote: post #109

darkmatterrat wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They draw voters from the more aligned main party, causing that aligned main party to lose elections. That is the entire point! The mainstream political party won't address particular issues unless it feel that it position in power is threatened.

Does that actually work? How did Trump winning in 2016 help your average Green Party supporter? If anything, didn't Biden win by a larger margin against Bernie in 2020 than Hillary won against Bernie in 2016?

> Does that actually work? How did Trump winning in 2016 help your average Green Party supporter?

Yes. If they lose an election or start losing their advantage it forces them to re-assess their policies and their positions.

I've explained here how UKIP threatened the Conservative vote enough that they had to offer the referendum to secure a majority in 2015:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28767473

UKIP share of the vote had increased from 3% to 12% in 5 years and the Conservatives knew they were a threat and had to offer the referendum. It forced the Conservatives to address the issue.

> If anything, didn't Biden win by a larger margin against Bernie in 2020 than Hillary won against Bernie in 2016?

Bernie from my understanding had burned much of his base when he endorsed Hillary for the 2016 election. Also Hillary wasn't a great candidate.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#123

Post by gpm » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 1:20 AM UTC

lalaland1125 wrote: post #117

hannibalhorn wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is actually what he's doing [1]: We will support candidates for office who align with our core principles so that we can reform the system and make it more responsive to the American people. This means that we will support Republicans, Democrats, and Independents - as well as candidates identifying themselves as Forward Party members. 1. https://www.forwardparty.com/whyforward

Sounds like he is actually starting a PAC as opposed to a new political party.

It could easily be both.

One method for avoiding the problem of splitting the vote is to only run candidates in ridings which are otherwise effectively "single candidate", places where the incumbents are expected to get >66% of the vote without you running.

This also lets you focus your resources more, and lets you pander more to a specific kind of voter (the voters you need to win the otherwise-not-competitive ridings you are running in).

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#124

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 1:33 AM UTC

aazaa wrote: post #2

The Platform page lists a selection of positions that I think would not be very controversial. https://www.forwardparty.com/platform Surprisingly, the issue that Yang is known for, UBI, is not on the list. UBI is, however, present here: https://www.forwardparty.com/whyforward I wonder if that was accidental.

[deleted]

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#125

Post by Goety » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 1:34 AM UTC

I have to disagree with the name 'forward party'

during civilizational decline I think different messaging is needed.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#126

Post by toss1 » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 1:37 AM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #100

toss1 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in a First-Past-The-Post voting system, which is used in most of the US (&afaik, in all presidential elections). The 1PPP systems systemically trend to metastable 2-party states. Of course 3rd parties will have distinctions from their closer main parties, but it is almost impossible that a 3rd party will triangulate exactly between the two major parties. This means that in practice, a vote for a 3rd party is effe…

I'm not talking strictly about election results. I'm talking about ideologically. I do agree with you if your only concern is election results.

Yes, from the ideological push perspective, losing a crowd to a 3rd party might cause a major party to move in that direction.

I certainly prefer a number of 3rd parties for a number of reasons, but not until we get off the 1PPP voting system. Ranked Choice, or any of a number of other options, but the role of 3rd parties as spoilers is just too great.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#127

Post by AlbertCory » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 1:44 AM UTC

atatatat wrote: post #68

AlbertCory wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's review the record: Yang ran for President. Did very poorly. Ran for NY Mayor. Did very poorly. Why does making him the face of a new party make any sense at all?

Because the reason he's doing poorly is inability to draw votes away from establishment candidates of the two entrenched parties. Highlighting that is key to his platform succeeding.

Elections are likability contests in the US. If you try twice and people don't like you... well, I'm sure you're a nice person and a good father.

You can bemoan this and yearn for European elections where the party platform makes a difference. But that's how it is.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#128

Post by vzqx » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 2:07 AM UTC

lalaland1125 wrote: post #117

hannibalhorn wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is actually what he's doing [1]: We will support candidates for office who align with our core principles so that we can reform the system and make it more responsive to the American people. This means that we will support Republicans, Democrats, and Independents - as well as candidates identifying themselves as Forward Party members. 1. https://www.forwardparty.com/whyforward

Sounds like he is actually starting a PAC as opposed to a new political party.

From the FAQ -

Is the Forward Party a political party?

The Forward Party is a PAC that plans to grow its support and then petition the FEC for recognition as a political party when we fulfill the requirements, which include operating in several states, supporting candidates, getting volunteers signed up around the country, and other party activities.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#129

Post by QuercusMax » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 3:15 AM UTC

happytoexplain wrote: post #71

QuercusMax wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They just replaced the Rs in the logo with Fs. What a joke.

I agree with the parent, but this a weirdly hostile take on this subject.

How can you be a serious political party if your logo is ripped off from a garbage company?

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#130

Post by jimbob45 » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 4:37 AM UTC

anonporridge wrote: post #101

gpm wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other countries with first past the post voting regularly manage to have more than two parties. Canada, the UK, etc. I don't think the USes problems can be solely attributed to fist past the post voting (though it certainly doesn't help).

If nothing else, RCV should help lower the political temperature in the US and soften the polarization that seems to be leading us to literal civil war. Everyone is backed into a corner of supporting one or the other party, and it's started feeling like an increasingly high stakes game between the two that's only getting worse. RCV might be something helps break the fever.

Lol we're nowhere near a civil war. The US is the the same as the pre-breakup USSR in that the peasant class fully knows that they'd be the biggest losers of any conflict or breakup.