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Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

forwardparty.com

101–110 of 638 posts

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#101
post #91
post #37

As long as the first-past-the-post voting system is used in the US such movements will go nowhere. Unsurprisingly ranked-choice voting is mentioned as their first core value.

Other countries with first past the post voting regularly manage to have more than two parties. Canada, the UK, etc. I don't think the USes problems can be solely attributed to fist past the post voting (though it certainly doesn't help).

If nothing else, RCV should help lower the political temperature in the US and soften the polarization that seems to be leading us to literal civil war.

Everyone is backed into a corner of supporting one or the other party, and it's started feeling like an increasingly high stakes game between the two that's only getting worse.

RCV might be something helps break the fever.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh I support electoral reform, but why the obsession with ranked choice? It is the second WORST voting system after first past the post, which is what we have now.

Ranked choice has a lot of advantages over the alternatives that are often underestimated by people too worried about theory. The big advantage of ranked choice is that it is simple to understand and implement. In elections, it is essential that the average person understand exactly how the system works. An election result that people don't understand/trust is worse than useless.

That's a reason I like approval voting. It's easier to consider what your ballot's effect will be. That's hard with IRV.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh I support electoral reform, but why the obsession with ranked choice? It is the second WORST voting system after first past the post, which is what we have now.

Ranked choice seems to be the best one I've read about. Could you help us understand what voting system might be better?

Proportional representation, the federal government enacts laws and levies taxes on everyone and isn't just some far away entity you can ignore. The multi level democracy USA has now where each party sends candidates based on local votes makes sense when the federated entity doesn't have direct power over people, but since USA has such a strong federal government that taxes people directly it needs to better represent its people than now.

Alternatively we can scale back the power of the federal government massively and have it be funded by the states rather than via direct taxes, similar to how EU works. But right now it is the worst of both worlds, taxes and control like a local government but poor representation like a federated one.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#104
I can't support a politician or party that doesn't make healthcare a major tenet of their platform. The US is the only first world nation without universal healthcare, and it pays more than those nations for worse results[1][2].

Also, it's interesting that the "Democracy Dollars" page[3] identifies a real problem, but then does nothing to actually address the core of the issue. Doing something about Citizens United would, though[4].

From[3]:

> Legislation and policy don’t reflect the will of the people because our voices have been flooded out by wealthy donors, corporate lobbyists, and special interest groups flooding the system with their money.

> *The rich thus have outsized influence, and they have very different priorities than the rest of us. Generally, the wealthy are more conservative, respect current authority, and encourage a less radical or rapid approach to change. Candidates and politicians quickly become subject to the donor class.

[1] https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality...

[2] https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-hea...

[3] https://www.forwardparty.com/democracy-dollars

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_finance_reform_amendm...

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#105

Edit: I was wrong, he's doing exactly what I thought he wasn't. See Hannibalhorn's comment below for more details. I'm glad he supports Ranked-Choice Voting (RCV), but I think he's going about this the wrong way. Right now, he's creating a new third-party within an electoral system that effectively defaults to two existing and dominant parties. Those two parties currently control every federal and state legislature a…

That is actually what he's doing [1]:

    We will support candidates for office who align with our core principles so that we can reform the system and make it more responsive to the American people. This means that we will support Republicans, Democrats, and Independents - as well as candidates identifying themselves as Forward Party members.
1. https://www.forwardparty.com/whyforward

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#106
post #18

Meh. Look, I hope people begin to understand that "ideas" in politics are just about as valuable as "ideas" in the IT field; which is to say -- they're fun to have and they can be exciting, but they're also pretty much worthless without execution. A tough lesson: If you support a presidential candidate because of their ideas, you're unlikely to get very far. The President usually needs to be like the boring CEO of th…

This is not true in history; many very important ideas need people to spearhead them over many years to get enacted.

Slavery was fought against for over 100 years amidst very fierce resistance before it was abolished.

John Quincy Adams (a failed president, but a very big abolitionist) spent 18 years to overturn a "gag rule" that automatically nullified anti-slavery legislation. Without the work of countless abolitionists bringing the ideas up again and again to the public stage, pushing for the ideas in ways that made the rest of the country uncomfortable, support for abolishing slavery would never be enough for Lincoln to do his proclamation.

The power of ideas are exactly what we need in the political sphere. Ideas in politics are very dissimilar to ideas in tech - in tech, it's all about business viability. In politics, ideas need to be about livelihoods of people.

There are two functions at play in governance; the government, which is in charge of executing the will of the people, and the will of the people itself. The will of the people is "represented" in all forms of government by parties. However representation is often taken away from the people by many things (corporate interest is a big one).

Climate change for instance is one place where the initiation belongs to the will of the people but is lacking adequate representation in political parties.

In this respect, "the Forward Party" is not really a party that will execute governance in the near future; it's a representation of the will of the people, collected together into a political body. More realistically, it's admitting that the political system is trudged up and that no political body represents what Forward wants to represent.

I think Forward is different from independents and other minor parties in the following ways:

1) it should be focused on incremental change, not on taking over the office

2) it should be focused on pushing forward ideas to limelight and holding accountability over those ideas, especially when those ideas make sense to a large percentage of the population

3) it shouldn't be a political party to directly compete ideologically with existing parties (liberals); rather it should wield its influence to pressure the competition to pick up its practical issues

Assuming it's not just another independent political party trying to run for government, I think the Forward Party is a great "idea", and is sorely needed in the political landscape of the US.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#107
post #96

Big time fail not making cannabis legalization a top-line plank in their platform. It's overwhelmingly popular, and because this party (like every third party) is doomed to be a spoiler at best, they could attract enough voters with cannabis legalization to perform (optimistically) in the high single digits instead of the high fractions of a digit. High single digits is enough to swing elections, which is enough to f…

I'm not saying that there isn't the beginning of a good idea in argument that you're making, but the way you describe it it boils down to "adopt cannabis as a popular platform plank and force one of the major parties to adopt cannabis as a popular platform plank" which might be fine but it might not be Yang's goal.

I'm not saying they should just try to get major parties to adopt cannabis legalization as a platform plank. I'm saying they should use cannabis to get adequate popular support for their party in hopes of getting the other parties to adopt the non-cannabis elements of their platform.

Federal legalization/decriminalization is going to happen eventually, so this is a limited-time opportunity for a third party. Make hay while the sun shines.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#108

Edit: I was wrong, he's doing exactly what I thought he wasn't. See Hannibalhorn's comment below for more details. I'm glad he supports Ranked-Choice Voting (RCV), but I think he's going about this the wrong way. Right now, he's creating a new third-party within an electoral system that effectively defaults to two existing and dominant parties. Those two parties currently control every federal and state legislature a…

That is actually what he's doing [1]: We will support candidates for office who align with our core principles so that we can reform the system and make it more responsive to the American people. This means that we will support Republicans, Democrats, and Independents - as well as candidates identifying themselves as Forward Party members. 1. https://www.forwardparty.com/whyforward

[deleted]

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main issue is that third parties often have the opposite effect that their supporters want. They draw voters from the more aligned main party, causing that aligned main party to lose elections. Third parties hurt the interests of their own supporters. There are good reasons why the Democratic Party tends to support the Libertarian Party and the Republican Party tends to support the Green Party [1]. 1. https://www…

> They draw voters from the more aligned main party, causing that aligned main party to lose elections. That is the entire point! The mainstream political party won't address particular issues unless it feel that it position in power is threatened.

Does that actually work? How did Trump winning in 2016 help your average Green Party supporter?

If anything, didn't Biden win by a larger margin against Bernie in 2020 than Hillary won against Bernie in 2016?

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They provide a very important mechanism that allows for the main party to fail in a way that it otherwise couldn’t. The only way for a “good” (according to the constituency) idea to succeed is if the “bad” ones fail. If bad ideas are prevented from failing, then the efficiency of the entire system declines. In the two party system, the only ways for a party to fail are via apathy (not bothering to vote at all), and t…

The main issue is that in the US, it seems like voting in the primaries is much more effective than third parties. Look at groups like the Squad, the Tea Party and Trump. These groups are/were able to achieve substantial changes in party platform by working through the primary system and have shifted politics much more than the third parties in the US ever did.

Yeah, that’s true. But you just run into a different set of inefficiencies there. The higher the level of participation you demand for the electorate, you risk an outcome where you represent popular sentiment less and the intensity in motive and means of individual factions more.

The entire idea of electing an executive separately from the legislature is not necessarily efficient in the first place, and the higher level of important placed on for former is quite strange from some perspectives.

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