Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain • Hacker News Board

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#121

Post by quartesixte » Sat, Sep 25, 2021, 1:30 AM UTC

m463 wrote: post #71

ilamont wrote: post #2

Most recently, the apparel world has been roiled by revelations that cotton from Xinjiang, in China, is being grown and processed using forced labour. The scandal implicated some of the world’s biggest brands, including H&M, Nike, Adidas and Gap, and prompted sanctions and restrictions in the west on imports made of Xinjiang cotton. Last August, not long after the US banned all imports containing Xinjiang cotton, US…

I wonder how much "crab" in restaurants is crab. On the other hand, I wonder how much "seafood soup" is actually the real deal (sharkfin soup)

Unless I’m cracking open the shell of a 8 legged creature with claws I don’t believe for a minute I’m truly being served crab.

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#122

Post by the_pwner224 » Sat, Sep 25, 2021, 2:12 AM UTC

jdavis703 wrote: post #53

OldHand2018 wrote: post #50

This is an interesting article. It also makes me think that this kind of analysis presents a lot of opportunities. Take for example the Chinese beef being labeled as premium New Zealand beef and sold for much higher prices in supermarkets. If shoppers can't tell the difference without this analysis, then it implies that the price differential between these two products is larger than it should be. That specific Chine…

In a lot of cases we can taste the difference. Organic vs. conventional chicken has a different mouthfeel. And Wagyu Beef vs. regular beef also has a similar different feel. However I also buy free-range organic eggs and milk. I’d have no idea if those products were mislabeled. But it also makes me feel better I’m not contributing to cruel factory farming and antibiotic abuse. If that’s not the case, oh well. I did a…

I find it hard to tell with milk, but for eggs it's generally pretty obvious by looking at the yolk. Small and unsaturated yellow in mass produced eggs; larger and a deep orange color in the higher quality eggs that I've purchased.

That can't quantify free range or organic, but given that the eggs which are labeled free range / organic have this noticeable difference in their contents, I think it's safe to assume the chickens were treated better and taken care of.

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#123

Post by yaur » Sat, Sep 25, 2021, 3:11 AM UTC

quartesixte wrote: post #119

ilamont wrote: post #2

Most recently, the apparel world has been roiled by revelations that cotton from Xinjiang, in China, is being grown and processed using forced labour. The scandal implicated some of the world’s biggest brands, including H&M, Nike, Adidas and Gap, and prompted sanctions and restrictions in the west on imports made of Xinjiang cotton. Last August, not long after the US banned all imports containing Xinjiang cotton, US…

I love eating fish but I refuse to buy fillets because of all the fraudulent activity. At least when I buy fish whole I know what I’m getting (on a species to species level at least. Farmed/Wild/Specific region is trickier to spot) Red Snappers and Nile Perches are very different looking fish, but you’d have to buy them whole.

I’m not sure I’ve ever gone somewhere (for retail fish) where you could buy a whole fish where they wouldn’t filet it for you while you are standing there. Of course those bones and head make good stock so I try usually buy whole fish anyway.

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#124

Post by pphysch » Sat, Sep 25, 2021, 3:17 AM UTC

dustintrex wrote: post #114

pphysch wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sources: Bethany Allen-Ebrahimian, Darren Byler, and Adrian Zenz. This should be hilarious to anyone who has been scrutinizing the Xinjiang narratives closely.

Context: A lot of Adrian Zenz's "research" is pretty sketchy. However, a lot of criticism directed his way is straight up Chinese propaganda, which also means that anybody else questioning his methods gets labeled as a wumao shill.

Can you link a criticism of him that is misleading?

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#125

Post by bserge » Sat, Sep 25, 2021, 4:27 AM UTC

jdavis703 wrote: post #82

OldHand2018 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't pass off non-Wagyu beef as Wagyu beef unless the consumer doesn't know what Wagyu beef is. I totally disagree with the organic vs conventional chicken argument. I would suggest that the difference you notice is the breed of the chicken. Organic vs non-organic and free-range vs non-free-range is not something where you'd say that there is an information arbitrage opportunity. The concept was that this analys…

You could very well be right about chicken breeds. I never thought about different breeds tasting different. I know there are super-sized industrial ones which taste horrible. But what are good small chicken breeds? And would a fancy/organic supermarket butcher be a good source for this?

Can't say about the breeds, but the cheap supermarket victims of Henschwitz taste pretty bad compared to actual free range hens most likely because the latter move around instead of being stuck in a cage.

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#126

Post by dustintrex » Sat, Sep 25, 2021, 9:19 AM UTC

pphysch wrote: post #124

dustintrex wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Context: A lot of Adrian Zenz's "research" is pretty sketchy. However, a lot of criticism directed his way is straight up Chinese propaganda, which also means that anybody else questioning his methods gets labeled as a wumao shill.

Can you link a criticism of him that is misleading?

Check out the vitriol in Chinese state media like Global Times: https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1197187.shtml

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#127

Post by beckman466 » Sat, Sep 25, 2021, 11:03 AM UTC

beckman466 wrote: post #99

nickff wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... And about ten or eleven times more likely to be incarcerated if you're male than female. Does this mean that the 'justice system' was twice as well 'designed to incarcerate' men? https://www.prisonpolicy.org/graphs/genderinc.html

the point is that there is too much Sinaphobia in mainstream western news outlets that means global north countries' behavior is not proportionately called out. many stories about China are unfounded and dangerous, and mostly have to do with China being technologically strong.

Sinophobia*

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#128

Post by LargoLasskhyfv » Sat, Sep 25, 2021, 12:03 PM UTC

folmar wrote: post #118

Animats wrote: post #109

I want UL certification fraud investigation. Someone should be buying random phone chargers, e-bike batteries, and scooters, and running them through the usual tests. If the certifications are fake, someone should go to jail.

In Germany Stiftung Warentest buys multiple samples of things to test in random shops around the country.

Tropfen auf den heißen Stein...

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#129

Post by fuzzfactor » Sat, Sep 25, 2021, 2:43 PM UTC

nitwit005 wrote: post #3

Clearly, the next step is to create a fake origin tracing firm.

>Clearly, the next step is to create a fake origin tracing firm.

The possibilities for disruption are endless.

One of the factors that influences international trade is the way a successfully loaded cargo can then change hands during transit or be diverted to a different destination port according to market forces.

The middlemen in this process have strong incentive to conceal the true cost per tonne of the wholesale material from the inquisitive beancounters of the ultimate payers.

The true origin may or may not be handled accordingly, depending on how important it is to avoid having the consumers begin sourcing the material more directly from the manufacturing facility, thereby bypassing some middlemen who could become disgruntled.

It might be a better business proposition to not swim against the flow of cargo ships.

It could be more lucrative being the firm which issues the best fake origin documents rather than the one revealing the true source using advanced scientific techniques.

It's always paid to expedite cargo and frowned upon to introduce any delays.

Don't ask me how I know.

Then again you could take it one step further and have a completely fake firm . . .

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#130

Post by TeMPOraL » Sat, Sep 25, 2021, 7:01 PM UTC

rapjr9 wrote: post #60

From the article: "If the elements in the soil and water of a region work their way into the plants grown there, they also work their way into our bodies when we eat the produce of those plants, or when we eat the meat of animals fed on those plants. We ingest these elements, process them, and use them to build flesh, teeth and bones. So the elements making up our bodies can tell us something about the food we’ve eat…

I think a sanity check heuristic applies: if the environmental effects on health were big enough to matter, the local government would turn the whole area into an exclusion zone (if effects were negative) or a vacation place (if they were positive). Since those things don't seem to happen, we can tentatively assume those effects don't rise above the noise floor.

(Same thing applies to dietary disinformation: if some foodstuffs were to actually increase your chance of cancer meaningfully, they'd be classified as hazardous substances. If they were to visibly improve your health, they'd be regulated as drugs.)