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Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

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Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

#121

Post by scrollaway »

bserge wrote: post #93
Sunspark wrote: post #11

Melatonin is a hormone, and is contraindicated for those with existing or predisposition to mental health conditions. In fact, that used to be a warning on the label in NY state. It's not something to play with.

It is if you accept the risks. Everything should be something to "play with". Never worked for me in any dosage, anyway, hopefully it works for others. Doesn't really matter in Europe since it's prescription only like anything else half useful. Living like a bunch of idiot slaves over here.

Melatonin, at its normal dose, is over the counter in every single European country i can think of.

Was this comment just a poor excuse to be xenophobic?

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

#122

Post by oiadscient »

detaro wrote: post #118
oiadscient wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a hormone. It’s an antioxidant.

It's both.

Out of the 3 billion years it is mostly a multitasking antioxidant. Sleep is only a small portion of what the molecule does.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

#123

Post by playcache »

Tenoke wrote: post #112
playcache wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Caffeine is not just harmless, every meta-analysis suggests it's beneficial for the majority and actively reduces all-cause mortality. You're conflating caffeine with coffee, specifically coffees non-caffeine properties. If you're referring to the Harvard study, that is coffee and its antioxidant properties, they even state [0] "and it doesn’t appear to matter if the coffee is caffeinated or decaf, brewed or instan…

Yes, I meant coffee though other common methods of ingesting caffeine like tea don't seem to be far off. And no, there's other studies (not sure which one this is from the article you linked). This recent meta-analysis reviews 40 studies. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31055709/

The linked meta-study also out rules caffeine

> An inverse association between coffee consumption and all-cause mortality was maintained irrespective of age, overweight status, alcohol drinking, smoking status, and caffeine content of coffee.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

#124

Post by headShrinker »

Tenoke wrote: post #99
emodendroket wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure you can trust the numbers on unregulated supplements anyway.

Any reference for the variance on them? I doubt it's too big but would prefer to just see what this is based on.

Supplements are an unregulated market so doses can vary wildly, even with melatonin.

‘A study published in 2017 tested 31 different melatonin supplements purchased from pharmacies and grocery stores. For most of the supplements tested, the amount of melatonin in the product did not match what was listed on the label.”’

Melatonin Natural Health Products and Supplements: Presence of Serotonin and Significant Variability of Melatonin Content https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5263083/

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

#125

Post by hedberg10 »

playcache wrote: post #46

I wonder how many folks that are taking Melatonin are coffee drinkers? I spent years trying to crack my sleep issues. Blackout curtains, magnesium malate / citrate, no electronic devices for an hour before bed, CBD oil, even stronger CBD oil, different doses of Melatonin, 5-HTP, valerian extract, sleep apnea tests. It never really significantly occured to me that it would be coffee as I believed I had ruled this out.…

I share your experiences with caffeine withdrawal.

I bought a really good Espresso machine. Quite fun, for me. Now I drink a really good cup on a sunday and then go a few days without even.

There is nothing that can touch it. Not the free coffee at work, which I now regard as insidious, or coffee places. They usually ruin the milk, if you hear an unpleasant sound while steaming, they are doing it wrong.

Also works with alcohol and food for me. We have too much of everything, hence why fasting is such a real life cheat code, but nothing of quality.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

#126

Post by netvarun »

Does anyone have any tips/advice to solve the inverse problem which is waking up on a regular schedule?

I mostly follow sleep best practices - no phone before sleep, sleeping at a regular time, meditation, blackout curtains, no caffeine after noon, etc and am able to fall asleep. But however I have a problem with waking up. I either need 9+ hours of sleep or I’m awake in just 5 hours - almost a bimodal distribution. The lack of consistency makes it very frustrating to plan the day. Considering I got to bed around the same time each day, not being to able to wake up on the same time is quite puzzling to me.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

#127

Post by dageshi »

emodendroket wrote: post #28

I have found melatonin supplements very effective for jet lag but I am hesitant to take any sleep supplement for more than a day or two in a row for fear of dependence.

Slow release variants are the ones I go for jet lag. 2.5mg slow release melatonin usually does the job. If you wake up it kicks in again enough for you to fall asleep relatively quickly.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

#128

Post by scoopertrooper »

krageon wrote: post #95
yosito wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Melatonin is not like a sleeping pill where more will necessarily make you more drowsy. It is a hormone that signals to your body that it is time to sleep. I can't find it right now, but there was a study of different doses in a large number of people that determined that just 0.2mg was more effective than larger doses for most people. And I've found that's true for me too. When I use melatonin, I use 0.2mg, and I fa…

> not like a sleeping pill where more will necessarily make you more drowsy > I suggest to anyone who is taking 1mg or larger doses to experiment with a "microdose" of 0.2mg and see how it affects you. So the problem I have with this reasoning is that I have tried this and the higher doses make me way more sleepy. I take a lower "correct" dose anyway (most of the time), but it has nothing to do with what works better…

The trouble is that you know how much you're taking. How do you rule out a placebo effect?

Human have a pretty strong bias towards thinking that more equals better.

Sleeping is probably one of the most physiologically influenced physiological processes we undergo, so it's pretty easy to believe that placebos would have a powerful influence on it.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

#129

Post by scoopertrooper »

oiadscient wrote: post #115
yosito wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Melatonin is not like a sleeping pill where more will necessarily make you more drowsy. It is a hormone that signals to your body that it is time to sleep. I can't find it right now, but there was a study of different doses in a large number of people that determined that just 0.2mg was more effective than larger doses for most people. And I've found that's true for me too. When I use melatonin, I use 0.2mg, and I fa…

Melatonin is not a hormone. It is a multi tasking antioxidant molecule. It is also 3 billion years old.

Those are a lot of fancy words you have there, but it's definitely a hormone.

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Melatonin

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

#130

Post by veidr »

oiadscient wrote: post #122
detaro wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's both.

Out of the 3 billion years it is mostly a multitasking antioxidant. Sleep is only a small portion of what the molecule does.

I tried not to downvote your comments but "this molecule has existed for 3,000,000,000 years" is completely unrelated to whether it is a hormone — it is a hormone that is emitted by every normal human's pineal gland in the brain every night.

Whatever else it might be... you should stop.

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