Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide • Hacker News Board

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#121

Post by Splognosticus » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 3:07 PM UTC

mcherm wrote: post #83

benmmurphy wrote: post #64

Is this a normal rate of suicide in these circumstances? Is there anything to indicate that these are instead murders in order to hide something?

> Is this a normal rate of suicide in these circumstances? Absolutely not. For real numbers: > For 2019, the [Blue HELP] calculated the officer suicide rate at 22.4 per 100,000 population.[1] ...and that is an annual rate. > Is there anything to indicate that these are instead murders in order to hide something? No, there is nothing to indicate that. [1] https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jun/24/facebook-p...

> No, there is nothing to indicate that.

Agreed. I'm noticing this idea floated throughout this thread and it's extremely alarming. There's nothing to suggest that any of the officers died under suspicious circumstances, nobody ever supplies any evidence supporting that theory, they're "just asking questions."

After years of watching as ostensibly reasonable people get mired in ever-increasingly insane conspiracy theories I'm incredibly worried to see them introduced to an already dangerously volatile situation. The Jan 6 riots wouldn't have even happened if not for the pervasiveness of the lie that the election was stolen. I really, really wish people would think more carefully before speaking this way.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#122

Post by Splognosticus » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 3:18 PM UTC

formerly_proven wrote: post #20

zimpenfish wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> police was endlessly demonized and underfunded in the past decade. https://cfo.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/ocfo/publica... suggests that the DC police have had a stable budget since at least 2018. https://ibo.nyc.ny.us/RevenueSpending/nypd.html suggests that NYPD have had an increasing budget since 1980 . https://www.injusticewatch.org/data/2020/chicago-has-nearly-... suggests that Chicago PD have had an in…

You can have stable or even increasing budgets and still be underfunded. Not saying this is necessarily the case here, just that it's definitely possible to pull that off.

It's not the case as far as I can tell--the DC Metro PD reports show crime there is dropping steadily over time[1]. There's a lot of factors that go into why crime rates change, but suffice to say that if the police weren't funded properly they wouldn't be able to handle the workload.

[1] https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/district-crime-data-glance

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#123

Post by Splognosticus » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 3:31 PM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #37

vkou wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> demonized Do you think it may have something to do with a culture where a police officer can put his knee on an unarmed man's throat, hold it there until he dies, write it up as a 'Police responded to a medical emergency, man died on the way to the hospital', and then have their peers close rank around them when the truth gets out?

The police will sometimes, in the routine execution of their duty, have to pin someone down. I don't recall any evidence that the murder was intentional. There is an expectation that the police are the sort of people who could kill someone if the need arises. They aren't all going to be philosophers. Given that and the vitriol around the situation, it is quite reasonable for the police to close ranks around him and l…

> I don't recall any evidence that the murder was intentional.

You're mistaken, but this is a complicated subject and it's entirely reasonable to not know this. I had to look it up at the time to learn it as well.

Chauvin was found guilty and sentenced to 22 years for second-degree unintentional murder, which would be the crime you're aware of, third-degree murder, which is a catch-all for special circumstances that does not ascribe intent, and second-degree manslaughter, which is when you act negligently in a way that you know will cause death.

Ed: oh, it occurs to me that reconciling one charge of unintentional murder and a another of intentional murder when there is only one victim is probably confusing, so just to clarify the way I understand it is that it's two different intentions that both result in death. In the former case, it's like if you were to find out your wife was cheating and you shot her in a crime of passion. In the latter it's like if you set a spring gun.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#124

Post by rdiddly » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 3:37 PM UTC

I'm sorry, my first thought is murder/coverup. Thought the same thing when it was Hunter Thompson and the 9/11 responders. I have no evidence. And suicide is plenty plausible. Just want that idea out there for some reason. It should at least occur to people.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#125

Post by drcongo » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 3:48 PM UTC

GaryTang wrote: post #73

elygre wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I understand what you mean by “accusations of being traitors from the right”. However, I was unaware of “BLM hostility on the left”. Could you share some more information about this?

A multitude more deaths caused by BLM protests. It wasn’t the rosy portrayal the TV showed you. And many people are still living in fear, not knowing when a BLM protest might come burn down their home.

Citation needed.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#126

Post by ikerdanzel » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 4:08 PM UTC

dead-snake wrote: post #58

_y5hn wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of the treason of storming a democratic process, and then lying about it? It makes you question who you're working for, when half of politicians are behaving in such shameful manner without reprecussions and justice. These police officers were physically assaulted and had no way of knowing wether they'd come out of it alive or dead. Some people were even searching for politicians to murder, and officers had n…

BlueAnon-level delusion.

Yup can see you admit it.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#127

Post by vkou » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 4:40 PM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #37

vkou wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> demonized Do you think it may have something to do with a culture where a police officer can put his knee on an unarmed man's throat, hold it there until he dies, write it up as a 'Police responded to a medical emergency, man died on the way to the hospital', and then have their peers close rank around them when the truth gets out?

The police will sometimes, in the routine execution of their duty, have to pin someone down. I don't recall any evidence that the murder was intentional. There is an expectation that the police are the sort of people who could kill someone if the need arises. They aren't all going to be philosophers. Given that and the vitriol around the situation, it is quite reasonable for the police to close ranks around him and l…

The lies and coverup was intentional, and preceeded the protests. Derek and the other police at the scene knew that what they did was wrong. That's why they lied about it in the police report. They weren't just performing their duties, unless their duties include covering up murder.

And 'unintentional' murder is still murder.

The courts can't work when the police are actively covering for murder. That's not doing their jobs.

If they don't want to be demonized, they should stop acting like demons.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#128

Post by irrational » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

ALittleLight wrote: post #27

From a little light Googling I don't see that any police officers connected to the 100+ nights of rioting and protests in Portland killed themselves. Why would one event result in so many suicides while the other didn't?

Fox News et al way way way way over blew what actually happened in Portland. There were a few incidents (which Fox News blew up into a full scale war), but overall it was very peaceful.

The biggest problem in Portland was not the protesters or the police, it was the anonymous federal troops that trump sent to stir up trouble, against the demands of the Portland and Oregon governments that they leave. I put 99% of the trouble in Portland at the feet of Trumps SS troops.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#129

Post by dandanua » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 5:15 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #99

hef19898 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, January 6th is more like the Beer Hall Putsch. And we all know that that was only the beginning of Hitler's political career. Not sure if that is the right comparison, history is not repeating itself in that way. But having a failed, rather embarrassingly, coup attempt is no guarantee there won't be another one. Or a power grab abusing existing, legitimate democratic processes. The first time the NSDAP won was t…

> First order of the day was a new election that was everything but democratic, so. We're seeing the groundwork for this being laid by various states passing "reforms" on voting intended to prevent another "fraudulent election" from taking place (intended to both normalize the narrative that such a fraud occurred and legitimize it when it occurs in the Trumpists' favor under these reforms) and attempts to repeal Sect…

It's the normal people who think that Trump has failed. The world of savages can see this differently. Who else was able to attack the Capitol and survive two impeachments? Who else was able to f*ck the US political system so hard? How he has failed if he is enjoying the life after all that (while others are committing suicides)? He is a very decent chieftain for them.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#130

Post by BackBlast » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 6:13 PM UTC

neartheplain wrote: post #57

ALittleLight wrote: post #27

From a little light Googling I don't see that any police officers connected to the 100+ nights of rioting and protests in Portland killed themselves. Why would one event result in so many suicides while the other didn't?

The police in Portland were never overrun. Over the course of those 100+ nights they maintained discipline, held their secure perimeters, and succeeded in their mission to keep rioters from breaching e.g. the federal courthouse or their station buildings. In contrast, officers at the Capitol were completely overrun, isolated, and brutally beaten by the mob without hope or expectation of rescue. Some have said that wh…

An event that only lasted a couple of hours is so much more dramatic than months long riots with the leadership throwing police line officers under the bus? Sufficiently so that there's literally an epidemic of suicides?

I'm not buying it.