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Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

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Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#121

Post by keyringlight »

jbluepolarbear wrote: post #98

This is going to kill adoption of the new gaming features. I am really excited for Direct Storage on windows, but what incentive do the developers have to support it if only a small subset of their users have machines new enough to run it. This is exactly the same as the DirectX 10 disaster on Vista. It took a long time for developers to switch from 9 to 10. Most skipped 10 for 11 because it had the same windows supp…

I think it's going to be a little bit more challenging as the consoles are ahead with the storage capabilities as a baseline. Back in 2006 the consoles were (roughly) DX9 levels, so there wasn't really much incentive to push ahead unless your studio was a trailblazer. Now studios making games need to think on which audience they prioritize.

To a certain extent I anticipate it could be "a storm in a teacup", the new consoles have strong CPUs so that would naturally drive people gaming on PC to upgrade anyway. There's no games coming out (that I know of) with an imminent need to utilize direct storage, but I'd guess late 2022/2023 onwards is where it becomes strongly encouraged.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#122

Post by ferdowsi »

The "will create trash" reason is why Apple refused to switch to USB-C on the iPhone. They claim this while bundling USB-C to Lightning cables with the iPhone 12 which is among the most junk-worthy, limited-use types of cable I could imagine. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51208912

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#124

Post by chasil »

dunnevens wrote: post #84
eric__cartman wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering how unexciting new CPUs are nowadays I'd wager that a 10 year old computer in 2025 will still be perfectly usable for basic tasks such as email and web browsing. Something like an 8 year old i7 2700k is still very usable for a lot of home users. It might not be a beast when it comes to crunching numbers, but a big portion of the population would be happy using such a chip if you pair it with at least 8GB…

One of the ironies of this situation is that Windows 11 does well on the Core2Duos. At least the ones with 8 gigs / SSD, based on what I've seen people post online. I've seen people claim the 11 leak is performing better than 10, and 10 was running decently well on the C2D's. They did the work to make it even faster on older hardware, and now they're just going to throw it away? I could understand if the older machin…

Are you sure that they are blocked entirely?

A "hard floor" published earlier this week implied that only TPM 1.0 with a dualcore and 4gb of ram is required, although news emerged that the hard floor was revised up.

Microsoft is not handling the hard floor question well at all.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3623013/why-windows-11-requi...

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#125

Post by tremon »

numpad0 wrote: post #59
romwell wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soooo, the people who can't install Windows 11 will continue to not care? I don't understand the logic of your response. It's not like Microsoft will brick machines not eligible for Win 11

By cutting off at 8th Gen and TPM 1.2+2.0, they’re cutting off a lot of current and high end systems built by enthusiasts , while supporting far slower and inferior PCs. That’s the problem. No one’s arguing they’re chasing off cheap Celeron, they’re trying to get rid of even some Threadrippers and multi-socket setups, that could have 128GB or more of RAM, for “performance”.

So, what's in those generations that might actually matter to Microsoft? As you say, it's unlikely to be about performance. Is it some instruction set, or feature flags? It's unlikely to be about virtualization capabilities, as Intel still happily sells the newest chips "differentiated" to be virtually challenged. Did those generations introduce some crypto algorithm/primitive that Microsoft doesn't want to go without? A new system management mode? On-die microphone?

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#126

Post by TheGuyWhoCodes »

eric__cartman wrote: post #27

I hope the public backlash against Microsoft is large enough that they revert there ridiculous system requirements. Requiring TPM 1.2 is sort of reasonable I guess. But TPM 2.0. You've got to be kidding me. Also enabling secure boot is a pain in the ass for users that dual boot, because in Linux, to load a custom compiled kernel module you have to sign it first and do a whole lot of mumbling around to get it working.…

I really don't see why they limit to 2.0 rather than 1.2 They could support both easily but choose not to.

This could be their way to lower the amount of testing they have to do, but for a company the size of Microsoft that's inexcusable.

That fact the 7th gen Intel (like the 7700k that has TPM 2.0) or first gen Zen aren't supported is bad enough but that Microsoft is silent about it and even their PMs and Security employees on twitter just brush it off as "There are more requirements" is pure BS.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#127

Post by williadc »

eric__cartman wrote: post #60
ehsankia wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While overall agree, Windows 10 will be supported until 2025. By then any device without TPM 2.0 support would be at least 10 years old, right?

Considering how unexciting new CPUs are nowadays I'd wager that a 10 year old computer in 2025 will still be perfectly usable for basic tasks such as email and web browsing. Something like an 8 year old i7 2700k is still very usable for a lot of home users. It might not be a beast when it comes to crunching numbers, but a big portion of the population would be happy using such a chip if you pair it with at least 8GB…

To strengthen rather than diminish your argument, the I7 2700K is over 9.5 years old. Source: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/61275/i...

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#128

Post by chasil »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #101
1stranger wrote: post #12

I don't understand this logic. The vast majority of people don't care what version of Windows they're running. They'll just keep running Windows 10 without a care in the world. Just like they keep running Windows 7.

I prefer Windows 7. I like it's UI better. MS' ideal world would apparently not include any OS besides Windows 10 and 11, which is a great shame because i think there's so many great UI features in older Windows.

The most dislikable thing about Windows 7 is the limitation of clear text SMB2.

It's a good trade for local accounts and a superior ui to what followed.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#129

Post by illys »

There is nothing new here. Any new Windows version has transformed the previous generation of PCs into trash since people moved from DOS as a main user interface to Windows 3.

And people say "my PC is slow because it is getting old"... Even if the hardware has the exact same performance and almost the same usage like in its first day.

Why should they stop when customers comply and give them money? ... for ethics? for the environment? Who believes Microsoft has such concerns?

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#130

Post by poisonborz »

The requirements list will be most likely eased later on - IIRC it was also the case for virtually all major versions of Windows. The reason of this strictness is usually lack of testing or some compatibility features not being completed by the date of first release.
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