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Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

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Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#121

Post by lamontcg »

aseerdbnarng wrote: post #67
darth_avocado wrote: post #34

The whole pushback against remote work is absolutely nuts. When the companies were staring at shutdowns and loss of revenue, everyone gladly accepted the idea that people can work from home. And contrary to the popular belief, productivity increased (our own CEO admitted at one point in an all hands). But the minute there was a sign things are opening up, there's a complete opposite viewpoint being pushed from the sa…

Yes to all of this. My personal feeling is WFH is a threat to those who actors who need the office as a place to be seen.

The existing managers all got where they are now by navigating the office environment.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#122

Post by tobr »

cmuguythrow wrote: post #62
darth_avocado wrote: post #34

The whole pushback against remote work is absolutely nuts. When the companies were staring at shutdowns and loss of revenue, everyone gladly accepted the idea that people can work from home. And contrary to the popular belief, productivity increased (our own CEO admitted at one point in an all hands). But the minute there was a sign things are opening up, there's a complete opposite viewpoint being pushed from the sa…

Just want to provide a counter-story to your anecdote. Many of my colleagues are excited to go back to the office to increase collaboration and work satisfaction. Personally, wfh is really difficult for me and I can't wait to get back in the office. Working from home feels like grinding away at an endless list of tasks and waiting for the day to be over. Working at an office feels like playing a sport with a team - e…

But this is just a reason why you should go back to the office, not why someone who feels differently should.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#123

Post by sneak »

drewcoo wrote: post #119
darth_avocado wrote: post #34

The whole pushback against remote work is absolutely nuts. When the companies were staring at shutdowns and loss of revenue, everyone gladly accepted the idea that people can work from home. And contrary to the popular belief, productivity increased (our own CEO admitted at one point in an all hands). But the minute there was a sign things are opening up, there's a complete opposite viewpoint being pushed from the sa…

5. People who don't want to compete with a global pool of workers Those initial waves of offshoring were nothing compared with what COVID did. Wait until this affects labor prices.

Labor prices are up y/y for four straight quarters in the USA, with no signs of slowing down.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#124

Post by pinkybanana »

not_jd_salinger wrote: post #94
phkahler wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with fully remote work is that once you accept that a job can be done from anywhere, you have to compete on a global level. It can be done from India, China, Pakistan, or any other place where they have smart people willing to work for less than you! So don't get too excited about it ;-)

People have been making this threat for decades now but here is the thing: you always get what you pay for. High quality developers from these countries can get paid surprisingly well. The ones that are insanely cheap tend to also do poor work. The reason we still plenty of work being outsourced is because if you have a really high tolerance for low quality work, the lower end is much cheaper than you can get in the…

> you always get what you pay for.

This isn't true. Yeah statistically maybe. In practice if you are willing to endure some hassle you can save a lot of money by using offshore freelancerds/contractors. However it requires lots of patience and also depends on the field.

Most people hire locals because they want to feel comfortable. It is just nicer to communicate with someone from the same culture, and it is easier to trust that guy.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#125

Post by lamontcg »

sva_ wrote: post #65

Is it possible that this pushback against working from home might (at least in part) be motivated by a desire of keeping real-estate prices up? After all, if offices aren't needed anymore, prices would probably plummet, and real estate is a very popular asset among a certain group of people.

And housing prices as well, if people weren't tied to geography by a commute they can work from wherever they like and a lot of them would move somewhere a lot cheaper.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#126

Post by ishjoh »

brnt wrote: post #108
mywittyname wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wait for the mass exodus. Remote work is turning out to be a requirement for hiring people. So once the company starts bleeding (good) people who find remote jobs with other companies, they are going to be difficult/impossible to replace. At some point, the execs will have to suck it up and offer remote work.

I hear Dublin is already draining and the real estate market folding. The latter a very good thing for non-expats of course.

I found this as a source: https://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Europe/Ireland/Home-Pric...

Adjusted for inflation it does look like it was down a bit during last year, but Q1 there seems to be a rise again. What's interesting is that it looks like the Dublin prices have seen a wild 10 years of volatility.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#127

Post by sneak »

geodel wrote: post #29
throwawayboise wrote: post #16

One worker complained that the manager “wanted butts in seats because we couldn’t be trusted to [work from home] even though we’d been doing it since last March,” adding: “I’m giving my notice on Monday.” I've seen this with my current employer. Their message has been that going forward at some point, "Working remotely is not an option." There's really no reason I can't work from home. I've been doing it since March…

All great points. It is similar for me. Server/App admin plus some coding. Most meetings happen over webex because teams are distributed across cities in different time zones. But working from home is not an option. Also actually flying to different offices to collaborate face-to-face is not an option either because "Hehe who flies mere devs for meetings, isn't there a slack / zoom / webex?"

If you know how to code and admin boxes, you have your pick of jobs. There’s no reason to ever go back to an office if you don’t want to unless you’re on some terrible immigration twist-your-arm situation where you get deported if you get fired from that particular job.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#128

Post by duckfang »

phkahler wrote: post #71
darth_avocado wrote: post #34

The whole pushback against remote work is absolutely nuts. When the companies were staring at shutdowns and loss of revenue, everyone gladly accepted the idea that people can work from home. And contrary to the popular belief, productivity increased (our own CEO admitted at one point in an all hands). But the minute there was a sign things are opening up, there's a complete opposite viewpoint being pushed from the sa…

The problem with fully remote work is that once you accept that a job can be done from anywhere, you have to compete on a global level. It can be done from India, China, Pakistan, or any other place where they have smart people willing to work for less than you! So don't get too excited about it ;-)

But that's always been true. And companies are going to do that if they can, regardless if we WfH or WfW. More than a few of us have seen the mass firings, and training some barely-comprehensible foreign workers, whom wreck the place, and then the company calls and begs us to come back.

That's literally the same argument about the "Fight for $15" - the argument is 'yer gonna get automated'. That's going to happen no matter what.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#129

Post by sneak »

kelnos wrote: post #38
CamperBob2 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAD, but I'm sure there are some medical contraindications for certain individuals, such as people who are immunocompromised, that may legitimately keep them from being vaccinated. That's why achieving herd immunity is important, and my understanding is that we aren't quite there yet. Never change, HN.

Sure, but this thread is about an employer bringing everyone in for a luncheon. People who are not vaccinated for medical reasons should be taking responsibility for their health in these situations and declining to attend an event like this. (If the employer will count this absence against them despite their medical situation, that's a shitty employer that might be violating ADA laws.) The issue is with the anti-vax…

I read that something like 3-4% of the US might be immunocompromised, easily an order of magnitude higher than I would have initially guessed, which means that if you have a staff of 20, it’s possible that vaccines might not be effective when administered to one of them.

It’s not just antivaxxers who are at risk from in-person meetings.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#130

Post by ishjoh »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #57
thrower123 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We just have twenty years of experience that any initial cost savings generated by outsourcing are illusory and come due with interest on the back end.

Depends what you're outsourcing. We outsourced manufacturing and those cost savings were certainly not illusory. A lot of communications type work suffered from outsourcing due to language barriers and poor connectivity and poorer skillset from workers in other areas of the world (or even the US). That may not always continue to be the case. I'm guessing the top 10% or 20% of workers do not need to be worried since t…

Not only did we lose the ability to manufacture things locally which has impeded our ability to innovate in certain fields, many companies were wiped out by new overseas low cost competitors who took the expertise they learned from our training in the initial outsourcing.

Essentially for short term gain for some, entire companies were destroyed.

So there were heavy costs on the backend.

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