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I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device

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Re: I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A standard USB 3.1 type A connector has 9 pins. The reversible type C has 3 extra pins (SBU, CC, VBUS) Not precisely. The type C connector has four distinct USBSS pairs; the type A connector only has two. This allows the type C connector to be used to carry DisplayPort or other high-speed data alongside USB.

Isn't that a direct outcome of the reversibility aspect? [0] Technically it has 2 of everything. [0] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/US...

Not everything. The USBFS pair (D+/D-, at the center of the connector) is mirrored; the two D+ lines are connected together. This is not true of the four USBSS pairs -- TX1+/- and TX2+/- are separate, and can both be used at the same time for different purposes. The CC1/2 lines (which aren't mirrored either) are used as part of the process to negotiate how these pairs are used.

Re: I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device

#122
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 007 version would have data on one side and blank the drive if plugged in the wrong way or, well, blow up to provide a distraction.

And sides would be completely unlabeled...

go with slightly different textures.

Re: I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device

#123
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this was at its peak when basically every computer had only USB 2.0 ports. You pretty much could plug in anything to anything, so long as it fit. Not to say there were no issues -- USB 1.1 hubs, cable length limits -- but they were so incredibly minor compared to today. USB 3 introduced blue plugs, complicating things slightly but still everything basically worked, and if something was operating slower than e…

I don't understand why the color coding plugs wasn't brought back for C. The 3.0 vs 2.0 thing was nice, and made it easy to tell what I needed to plug into. Now I have a phone with a 2.0, a laptop with a 3.1, and a macbook with a thunderbold, and my USB to HDMI port only works with one of the three.

They break aesthetics and for a lot of people that's more important than actual capabilities.

Re: I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device

#124
>if you encounter problems with your USB-C devices you might want to try to flip the connector.

I have a Lumia 950 (one of the first USB-C phones) and a short USB-A to USB-C (or apple) cable/adapter.

One orientation does not charge the phone, so hes right it does happen.

Re: I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device

#125
post #12
post #5

I love the comment that says you could make a device that requires you to unplug and plug the other way before it works, no matter what.

Two counters tied to an AND gate and you could require X number of orientation flips before it works :)

You could achieve similar results without the added complexity by extending construction into 4 spatial dimensions.

Re: I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device

#126
post #5

I love the comment that says you could make a device that requires you to unplug and plug the other way before it works, no matter what.

I believe to properly conform to the USB specification, the device must be tried one way, tried the other way, then tried the first way again before it plugs in properly.

Combine with a gyro to ensure that the rotations are made in the correct respective directions.

Re: I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device

#127

USB, HDMI, Cable ethernet, DisplayPort, PCIe, ... they all use differential signals to transmit data, just different protocols. We could really and truly have just one type of plug to connect everything to everything a long time ago and without proprietary licenses. As much as I like what USB-C offers as much I hate it and other "stupid" standards that duplicate same function just with differnt plugs - transfering da…

I've asked a lot of hardware engineers why ethernet is not simply used for everything. I've never gotten a real answer, one that involves technical reasons. It could be done, but it isn't. I guess people like having different kinds of cables?

Three technical reasons:

1) Long distance communications require much more powerful transmitters/receivers, which also makes it hard to design for high data rate. 10 Gbps ethernet is only just getting popular for consumer electronics, while 10 Gbps USB and video have been around for a very long time. It's not just market forces, it's inherent in the physics of the interface IC design. It also impacts power consumption; a 10 Gbps ethernet PHY takes a lot more power than a USB3.1 hub (by like, 10x per port).

2) Ethernet is galvanically isolated. This takes up a huge amount of space, both volume and PCB area, and makes it much more difficult to provide power. Galvanic isolation is important for robustness across variable electrical environments, but isn't that important for devices in the same room, and especially not on the same AC circuit.

3) The connector is optimized for cost and easy installation in the field, but it's not particularly durable or electrically robust (locking tab is delicate, can't be overmolded easily, not electrically shielded most of the time, huge transmission line stubs, etc.).

I can definitely envision a world where everything used maybe two standards, perhaps Ethernet for long distance and Thunderbolt for short, but there are lots of valid reasons for differentiation. There will always be tradeoffs. In the imaginary two-standard world, you wouldn't want to pay for a 20 Gbps Thunderbolt controller in your mouse.

Re: I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

safety nit: By using a dryer circuit (30A), you've got the wrong overcurrent protection on the saw. Which means that some failure modes could overload the saw, but not trip the breaker. The proper ways to do this is to run a new 20A 240V circuit, or to incorporate a subpanel with a 20A breaker into your extension cord. I don't think the risk is severe [0], but you should at least know your setup goes against the elec…

You raise a couple points I point I hadn't considered. Rewiring the motor to 115v is probably a no-go, since it's a 3hp motor (continuous), which I believe is more amps at 120v than could be drawn from a normal circuit. For safety, I'm wondering what kind of faults wouldn't be protected against. The starter has built-in thermal protection (heaters), which should protect the motor from the unlikely use case where I'm…

3HP is too much for a 120V/20A circuit for sure. Only magic shop vacuums can get >1.5HP out of a standard 120V branch circuit.

I'm having a hard time coming up with a compelling failure mode, given that thermal protector. Perhaps when the rotor locks, the thermal protector has a slower curve than the saw's wiring (which is assumed to be protected by the circuit breaker's curve). I would hope the saw wiring would be a bit oversized such that it too was protected by the motor thermal protection, but without doing an engineering analysis of the saw itself, you don't really know.

Unknown unknowns are my real point though - you're operating outside of the electrical code. Same as if you wired up a workbench of 5-15 receptacles with 10ga and put a 30A breaker on it - realistically it's going to be fine, but we avoid doing this. All those different NEMA plug sizes exist for a reason. 5-15/5-20 is really an anomaly where you can plug the smaller into the bigger, and even there I've got to wonder if eg old table lamps on a nice stiff 20A circuit are a good idea, or if they just haven't been focused on because they're statistically unimportant (see also: strings of Christmas lights with receptacles at the end).

FWIW I'd probably do the same thing you did, but at the cost of making sure I unplugged the saw whenever I was done using it until I made a proper permanent circuit. But that is not professional advice!

Re: I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device

#129
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You do see NEMA 5-15R receptacles on 20A circuits in residential applications This is, of course, what I was talking about. I do appreciate the nuances of the 15/20 T-socket and the 6-20/5-20 symmetry; NEMA is super cool (aside from the fact that bladed plugs that aren't twist-lock are sort of lame/less safe in general, at least compared to the UK standard bladed plug). It's a fun rabbit hole to venture down: my oc…

That's never bothered me, but I guess I see your point. I always figured that the point of having a 20A circuit with 15A receptacles was so that you can plug in and run two 10A devices without popping the breaker. Stupid question: are there any common household appliances that draw 20A? I've only ever seen the T receptacles in non-household uses.

Bigger window air conditioners are usually either 5-20 or 6-15 depending on if they're 120 or 240 V.

Re: I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device

#130
post #85
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it funny how people used to complain about the sheer number of times they had to explain to family members exactly the opposite: "No need to ask. If you can plug it in, then it will work. Computers are fool-proof like that. No, it's not like the jacks on the hi-fi" As in, someone got a new mouse and didn't know where to plug it into their computer, when in fact there was only one DB-9 connector on the computer…

Didn't DB-9 also work for early video before VGA?

DE-9 was used for MDA, CGA, EGA, and Hercules. Also some early VGA hardware used it, before DE-15 became sort of a de facto standard. (EGA had separate wires for red, green, and blue, they just carried digital signals. VGA used analog signals for red, green, and blue, so it was sensible to just map them to the same pins. Some monitors could accept either signal format and adapt to the timing of almost anything, the NEC MultiSync and Samsung Syncmaster for two.)

The Tektronics TDS-4xx oscilloscopes produced VGA-signals-on-EGA-pinout, for one example I've encountered in the wild.

DE9 connectors were also used for RS232C serial ports, which included mice and modems and all manner of other things speaking RS232. Wand-style barcode scanners were quite frequently on a DE9 connector, speaking some obscure protocol which may be at RS232C-compatible voltages but probably had positively Martian numbers of data/stop bits, etc. Or maybe just a raw photodiode signal so plugging into a serial port wouldn't do anything useful at all. Heaven help you.

Beyond that they were also used on Token Ring network cards (the hermaphroditic connector being to large to fit on a slot bracket), Fibre Channel in its copper variant (using the same pinout as Token ring, thank goodness they wouldn't blow each other up if mistaken), and pretty much anything else that only needed a few signals. It's a durable, ubiquitous, easy-to-work-with connector.

And of course in industry, the DE9 connector is still used for a zillion more things, like CAN. Pretty much every CAN test tool you'll find uses pins 2 and 7 for CANL and CANH respectively, with 3 and 5 as ground.

Pin 9 has quietly emerged as a sort of de facto phantom power supply, and if you stick 9-to-12-ish volts on it with a polyfuse, a lot of devices will run from that and not need batteries. Some RS232 GPS receivers would accept that, and the Toughbooks with serial ports still produce it.

Here's a funny: RS232 on DE9 is still produced today by the millions, on the backs of fancy TVs, because it's still the most sensible way to interface with high-end home automation systems. (USB never arrived at a good way to do peer-to-peer, and requires entirely too much software.) It's a 60-year-old standard and still has legs.

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