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They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

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Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#121

Post by amirkdv »

awb wrote: post #105

> "How is this to be avoided, among ordinary men, even highly educated ordinary men? Frankly, I do not know. I do not see, even now. Many, many times since it all happened I have pondered that pair of great maxims, Principiis obsta and Finem respice — ‘Resist the beginnings’ and ‘Consider the end.’ But one must foresee the end in order to resist, or even see, the beginnings. One must foresee the end clearly and certa…

Genuinely curious: what are some historically significant examples of "false positives"? By which I assume you mean a time when people rose to resist something they didn't really have to.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#123

Post by boieruai »

coliveira wrote: post #60
bmmayer1 wrote: post #6

This is a powerful piece about a time in Germany where people couldn't, to paraphrase, see where things could go, and so couldn't really understand when things have started. I suspect that readers will see this piece as a reflection of their greatest fears about our own Republic. Unfortunately, the message will be lost by those who are most in need of hearing it. That includes many of the readers of this piece who th…

"Great people on both sides", that's the rally chant of the US president...

[dead]

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#124

Post by colpabar »

jolux wrote: post #28
jvanderbot wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not necessarily the actions, but the perceived intent by "the other side" that is important. Events become provocation draws provocation draws backlash, etc etc. I'm a fairly liberal person, but it doesn't take an inhuman amount of mental gymnastics to look at riots, anti-police sentiment, etc, and see a coordinated hostile agenda. I am lucky that I get to talk to both hardcore right and hardcore left people reg…

What am I supposed to think about the intent of the other side when they're trying to get a legitimate election result overturned to support their preferred presidential candidate? Who isn't living in reality here? This is not a far left position, and it's not the left that is driving FUD about US election integrity.

> it's not the left that is driving FUD about US election integrity

Come on now. How can you say this with a straight face after 5 years of the MSM claiming that Russia hacked our election?

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#125

Post by anonunivgrad »

jolux wrote: post #59
ajvs wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing in that article suggesting a false flag. At most Hina Shamsi suggests that leftist actions are being judged more harshly.

Fair enough. Why would right-wingers show up to a left-wing protest with violent intentions? There's no legitimate reason, but I apologize for extrapolating from their actions.

Is it a surprise that armed people would show up to oppose the trashing of their cities?

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#126

Post by NicoJuicy »

ajvs wrote: post #58
lisper wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but there is no moral equivalence in the U.S. between the left and the right. It's certainly true that neither side is squeaky clean, but the left does not deny basic facts, and in particular, it does not attempt to dispute the outcomes of elections when the results are clear (and indeed has in the past thrown in the towel even when the results were not clear). I could go on and on, but those two things ar…

After the last election there was the attempted impeachment and RussiaGate witch hunt which found no evidence that Trump conspired with Russia to influence the election. It's pretty brazen to ignore that ans say the left never disputed the election outcome.

"they" blocked witnesses, lied under oath and released a "redacted" transcript.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#127

Post by NicoJuicy »

youareostriches wrote: post #75
ajvs wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After the last election there was the attempted impeachment and RussiaGate witch hunt which found no evidence that Trump conspired with Russia to influence the election. It's pretty brazen to ignore that ans say the left never disputed the election outcome.

You can read the report, released by the Republican-controlled senate intelligence committee, for yourself: https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/docu...

This is the redacted report, correct?

Eg. Part of the redacting were removed and this was an example:

> But there are a few shreds of information that are really, genuinely new, and they’re damning of the president. Namely: Trump had direct knowledge of Roger Stone’s outreach to WikiLeaks, according to multiple witnesses interviewed by Mueller. He encouraged that outreach and asked his campaign chairman to pursue it further, those witnesses said. And Mueller’s office appears to have strongly suspected, without putting it in so many words, that Trump lied to the special counsel in his written answers to Mueller’s questions about the Stone affair.

I'm not going to read the version where they hide the important bits.

I would read a complete one though.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#128

Post by claydavisss »

vincentmarle wrote: post #19
bmmayer1 wrote: post #6

This is a powerful piece about a time in Germany where people couldn't, to paraphrase, see where things could go, and so couldn't really understand when things have started. I suspect that readers will see this piece as a reflection of their greatest fears about our own Republic. Unfortunately, the message will be lost by those who are most in need of hearing it. That includes many of the readers of this piece who th…

There is no “antifa”, everyone in the US should be antifascist.

[dead]

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#129

Post by peter422 »

pontus wrote: post #48
bmmayer1 wrote: post #6

This is a powerful piece about a time in Germany where people couldn't, to paraphrase, see where things could go, and so couldn't really understand when things have started. I suspect that readers will see this piece as a reflection of their greatest fears about our own Republic. Unfortunately, the message will be lost by those who are most in need of hearing it. That includes many of the readers of this piece who th…

I broadly agree with you. That being said, I don't think it's fair at this point to equate what's going on on the left to what's going on on the right. They are leagues apart. That's not to say that the same thing couldn't happen on the left or that the people on the left in some way are superior. Quite the opposite. I think the people on the left are just as susceptible to the type of effects happening on the right.…

I don’t think the guy who said Obama wasn’t born in the U.S. was going to have a shot on the Democratic side.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#130

Post by jolux »

at_a_remove wrote: post #100
jolux wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What am I supposed to think about the intent of the other side when they're trying to get a legitimate election result overturned to support their preferred presidential candidate? Who isn't living in reality here? This is not a far left position, and it's not the left that is driving FUD about US election integrity.

I recall a scant four years ago when many on the left were suggesting that the electors be faithless electors to get Clinton in office. After all, she won the popular vote, right? "What am I supposed to think about the intent of the other side when they're trying to get a legitimate election result overturned to support their preferred presidential candidate" indeed ?

"Many on the left" meaning every Democratic senator and congressperson, and the Democratic president himself too?
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