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Spy agency ducks questions about 'back doors' in tech products

reuters.com

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Re: Spy agency ducks questions about 'back doors' in tech products

#121

Post by munk-a »

worker767424 wrote: post #90
boomboomsubban wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but I promise you nearly every American adult knows who Edward Snowden is and probably has at least a vague idea of what he was trying to communicate. I highly doubt this. In 2015, only 60% of Americans had some idea of who Snowden was, and only half of those had a positive opinion of him. I doubt this has improved over the past five years either. https://www.aclu.org/snowden-poll-results

> only 60% of Americans had some idea of who Snowden was It's things like this and people who believe the moon landing was faked that convinced me universal suffrage isn't a good thing, and we need some sort of poll test to make sure people are educated on issues before voting. I realize the US has a bad history with "literacy" tests, but it's clear that most people have no business voting.

Sorry but no - universal suffrage has been proven historically to be far less flawed than any of the other suffrage limits we've ever had - giving everyone, including the idiots and the deplorables, a voice lets us see what our society is actually made of and might just make[1] education a bigger priority in the US budget.

1. Future tense because right now the US doesn't have 1 person 1 vote equivalence for most elections.

Re: Spy agency ducks questions about 'back doors' in tech products

#122

Post by shirakawasuna »

bayindirh wrote: post #28
warent wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has always been true that any computer connected to the internet could be accessed by an unauthorized party, even before the leaks. Disconnect from the internet and nobody is getting in, including the NSA.

> Disconnect from the internet and nobody is getting in, including the NSA. Oh boy. That's some serious delusion in 2020. Wireless cards and higher end network interface cards are independent computers. Your processor has another processor (Intel ME and others) in it. Baseband Management Controllers are also independent computers on their own right. With closed firmware and wireless capabilities, you can never know w…

I tend to repeat these types of concerns: the number of powerful and complex black boxes are increasing, with things like 5G making it even easier to low-key pass information without us knowing.

A common counterargument comes up when discussing devices like smart speakers. Defenders say that the devices are too low-power and that we would be able to notice power usage changes and sniff network data being sent if spying were happening. IMO, this is true to an extent, but also any onboard preconfigured recognition of certain products could easily send info back to, say, Amazon servers and you wouldn't be able to distinguish it from a "false positive" question to "Alexa". Knowing the extent to which these capabilities are plausible and/or would have been caught by now if they existed is, to me, murky.

This also applies to on-board chips and wireless data. Would we not notice from power usage and sniffing?

Re: Spy agency ducks questions about 'back doors' in tech products

#123

Post by jcims »

squarefoot wrote: post #93
jcims wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a hobby-grade GSM modem dev board you can add to any 'offline' device for $40. https://www.adafruit.com/product/1946

There are cheaper alternatives. A basic SIM800 based board can cost just above $3 on Ebay, probably less on Aliexpress, or less than $10 for a similar one with Raspberry PI compatible connections (useable with other systems as well). Also interesting is the SIM7600 module which supports 4G LTE down to GSM plus GPS. Also available in Mini PCI-E boards. https://www.ebay.com/itm/191879410081 https://www.ebay.com/itm/292…

Dang i might have to order some, thanks!

Re: Spy agency ducks questions about 'back doors' in tech products

#124

Post by fsflover »

jimbob45 wrote: post #70
bayindirh wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Disconnect from the internet and nobody is getting in, including the NSA. Oh boy. That's some serious delusion in 2020. Wireless cards and higher end network interface cards are independent computers. Your processor has another processor (Intel ME and others) in it. Baseband Management Controllers are also independent computers on their own right. With closed firmware and wireless capabilities, you can never know w…

Fine, make a Faraday cage around the PC. Are you happy now?

Not enough: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24919589

Re: Spy agency ducks questions about 'back doors' in tech products

#125

Post by fsflover »

stonepresto wrote: post #41

Root everything. FOSS all the things. Tear everything apart. There will always be a BBEG, no matter what part of the world you are in or what sort of government you live under. You are the only one who acts in your best interest.

> You are the only one who acts in your best interest.

No, you aren't. And it's impossible to do everything alone.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24881988

Re: Spy agency ducks questions about 'back doors' in tech products

#126

Post by SauciestGNU »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #116
mschuster91 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many don't trust Intel processors and Cisco routers anymore That's Cisco's own fault given that there are rarely more than 6 months between critical firmware releases that either have some way of hardcoded backdoor account, remote code execution or other similar bugs.

It’s not Cisco’s fault if the NSA has compelled them to add those “bugs”

It absolutely is. There can be a duty to resist. People get killed based solely on data collected from signals intercepts. More people and companies should take the brave stand Lavabit did, rather than be complicit in oppression and state-sponsored killings.

Re: Spy agency ducks questions about 'back doors' in tech products

#127

Post by 542354234235 »

warent wrote: post #15
pulse7 wrote: post #5

"The tactics drew widespread attention starting in 2013, when Snowden leaked documents referencing these practices." So this is what Snowden has done: he "drew widespread attention to these tactics". Before Snowden they would call you "paranoid" if you would allow yourself to mention it. Today they can not call you paranoid anymore. And yes, it has hurt US industry reputation. Many don't trust Intel processors and Ci…

It has always been true that any computer connected to the internet could be accessed by an unauthorized party, even before the leaks. Disconnect from the internet and nobody is getting in, including the NSA.

> Disconnect from the internet and nobody is getting in, including the NSA.

Ah, the "just move to the wilderness and grow your own food if you don't like the government infringing your constitutional rights" argument. I want to be able to meaningfully engage in normal society by buying consumer goods and connecting them to communications platforms and I want my 4th amendment rights protected. I really don't think that is too much to ask.

Re: Spy agency ducks questions about 'back doors' in tech products

#128

Post by boomboomsubban »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #108
LinuxBender wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but they do for sure listen to your calls. I used their software in a wireless provider. "She" was fascinating. She could understand any language, dialect, voice inflection, and so much more. No training required whatsoever. She listens to all international calls and flags phrases and key words.

They don't listen to your phone calls either. If they did, Snowden would have leaked it, and it would have been a bombshell revelation. If you have information otherwise, you should blow the whistle.

They do, Snowden and others have leaked it. https://www.cnet.com/news/nsa-spying-flap-extends-to-content...

Re: Spy agency ducks questions about 'back doors' in tech products

#129

Post by Broken_Hippo »

autosharp wrote: post #99
worker767424 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> only 60% of Americans had some idea of who Snowden was It's things like this and people who believe the moon landing was faked that convinced me universal suffrage isn't a good thing, and we need some sort of poll test to make sure people are educated on issues before voting. I realize the US has a bad history with "literacy" tests, but it's clear that most people have no business voting.

Who designs the test?

I was going to ask the same thing.

"The issues" vary between people. How many do you include? Are they just the basic stuff the news covers? Do you need to know federal, state, and local issues? If you vote in a federal election, do you need to know issues in different parts of the country? Wouldn't the test show the biases of the test makers?

Re: Spy agency ducks questions about 'back doors' in tech products

#130

Post by 542354234235 »

bulletsvshumans wrote: post #77
Liquix wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an interesting case of cognitive dissonance. Most will admit when pressed a bit that the CIA/NSA/FBI do not have our best interests at heart and are out of control. They have repeatedly lied under oath, lied to congress, lied to the public, run human experiments on unwitting citizens, collect data on all of us, etc with complete impunity. However many people somehow simultaneously hold the belief that these agen…

I think it's clear that they are out of control, from the examples you list among others. The harder argument is that they're not doing it in our best interest. Without good visibility into their activities (which could very well inhibit those activities), it's hard to tell which of their activities are a net benefit to our country. My guess is that most Americans would expect that they sometimes do things that aren'…

> The harder argument is that they're not doing it in our best interest.

I disagree. I think they absolutely believe they are doing what is best for the country, but without actual accountability and meaningful outside oversight and input, I would say it is far more likely they have become myopically focused. That they are unable to accurately judge or weigh the effects of persistent surveillance against one’s own citizens and how that negatively impacts a free and open democracy and a government that feels accountable to its citizens, vs their own very skewed perspective of looking at nothing but “threats” and thinking about nothing but threats, and planning for nothing but threats. The “everything is a nail to a hammer” saying comes to mind.

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