Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are here, so obviously you feel "good" enough and worthy to exist. With population control its always the "others" need to be eliminated. No one wants to start with themselves. Its an extremely selfish position really. Its also not very logically viable, since those that feel the world is over populated and kill themselves, will just be selected out of the gene pool. Leaving only those that want to live, procreat…
there is no need to kill oneself. but making a start by not choosing the ego-project of procreation would already make a huge difference. if people really want to have children there are enough orphans out there and which would make the world better by raising them instead.
Holocene Extinction
121–130 of 136 posts
Re: Holocene Extinction
#122A huge chunk of our net impact on global warming and deforestation is a direct result of our food system, namely animal agriculture. There is disagreement about just how inefficient turning an acre of corn into slabs of cow, but it should be clear that it is some fraction of the efficiency of just eating that corn as food itself.
We kill trees so Trader Joe's can send me a catalog of products I will throw away without reading. And 90% of people will likely do exactly the same.
Or so companies like Lob.com can convert API calls into dead trees, instead of looking into ways to do the opposite.
Re: Holocene Extinction
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
there is no need to kill oneself. but making a start by not choosing the ego-project of procreation would already make a huge difference. if people really want to have children there are enough orphans out there and which would make the world better by raising them instead.
That's true. On the other hand, if the desire to have one's own biological progeny is heritable, then the previous poster's point still stands. Given a mixed population of people who want to reproduce their own genomes and those who don't, over time the balance will shift to favor those who do. Parents who don't care whether the children are theirs biologically will have a greater tendency to raise children regardles…
Yeah, but this will only happen over the course of millions of years... not in 2050... Not to mention this is already the dominant desire...
Re: Holocene Extinction
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree. And the other thing too is nobody wants to hear about the prospect of overpopulation. In fact, I think most of our problems stem from this. Bill Gates, for example, says we can "feed 12 billion people". Ok sure, but at what cost to the planet and our quality of life? Others say "the whole population could fit in an area the size of Texas". Or they look at Hong Kong density and say "it's possible". But I don'…
World population growth has plummeted. You should be pleased. https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2013/05/Updated-World-Pop... . That drop in growth was not achieved by impact of war, disease or starvation but by economic activity of the kind you think is an 'issue'. People want to trade and better themselves. When they do this, dramatic improvements can result at all levels. You're hardly able to take an interest in…
Re: Holocene Extinction
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think this is far less evident than usually assumed. The life of the last hunter gatherer tribes is probably the best approximation we have on how our ancestors may have lived. And while death is a more common (and swifter, less problematic) occurrence for these people, they were hardly unhappy compared to us -- sure, they didn't have iphones.
Many times I find these studies that show that hunter gathering was not all that bad are written from male perspectives. It is great to be a guy hunting with your buddies if the women are the ones doing the hard work of gathering. Also, you don’t experience the dangers of pregnancy and childbirth. Many times these hunter gatherer societies have much higher maternal and infant mortality than ours, and higher rates of…
What those studies do find in common is is that hunting is an minority part of the diet and both sexes spend most time gathering. Hunting is more an act of opportunity or desperation.
When it comes to violence there is/was two camps with the research community, one claiming major violence in hunter gathering and the other arguing very low level of violence. One side accuse the other of pacifying the past, and the other side claims people are warifying the past. More modern consensus seems to lean towards less violence since the majority of time spent for all members of a hunter gathering group is on gathering. There just are not time to spend on violence when 75% of waking hours is spent on creating food for the day.
Farming is historically the mechanism which allowed people to spend less time per day on food and more time on social interaction and social fighting over dominance. It also made people more vulnerable, as crops can be destroyed and weather can cause disruption, which then has a direct connection to increased violence. When people started domesticating animals they further increased their food source vulnerability since animals can be stolen, and there is research linking ancestry of herding with increased biological response to aggression with the hypothesis of increased risk being the primary factor behind greater aggression.
I know a good book if you want to dig into all the different theories around this subject, but it is a pretty complex area of research.
Re: Holocene Extinction
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
Many times I find these studies that show that hunter gathering was not all that bad are written from male perspectives. It is great to be a guy hunting with your buddies if the women are the ones doing the hard work of gathering. Also, you don’t experience the dangers of pregnancy and childbirth. Many times these hunter gatherer societies have much higher maternal and infant mortality than ours, and higher rates of…
Research into hunter gathering has major issues to the point where we can't really say much about their life. Most studies tries to find surviving hunter gathering that looks like they have not been influenced by non-hunter gatherers, but they are very few that still exist and those that do tend to be semi-hunter gathering rather that true hunter gathering, and they are useally located in very specific environments w…
Since you seem knowledgeable on the topic, I'm curious what is the current view of the San people in the Kalahari. I read several books on them by members of the Marshall family, and I can see how these may be seen as romanticizing their subjects and not entirely objective, yet these books give a very compelling view, and are clearly based on first hand knowledge and experience.
E.g. Elizabeth Marshall: The harmless people, 1959.
Re: Holocene Extinction
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s an interesting point, given modern animal farming practices. 97% of cows are going to come from a feedlot, where they’ll be fed grain (corn). The special part of their stomach that allows them to extract more nutrients from certain plant foods compared to humans, the rumen, is “made” for grass. When switching over to grain, acid builds up in the rumen which can lead to acidosis, so we then have to pump the cow…
That's interesting. I certainly do not claim to be an expert in raising cattle. Perhaps there are smarter ways we can raise cattle. Is that why the grass-fed label is so important?
Re: Holocene Extinction
#128Many times there is a heavy dose of misanthropy in these environmental discussions. Phrases like "humanity is a virus", etc. I would like to share a different perspective.There is a saying, "It is better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all." Even if humanity overburdens the planet and goes extinct in the next 100 years, I prefer what we have now, than if we had remained hunter-gatherers or pre-ind…
Person A is very conservative and puts the money in a savings account, and spends small parts of money over long periods of time.
Person B is not as conservative, and invests the money in a diversified portfolio.
Person C is an idiot, invites all their friends to a party that lasts an entire week where all the money will be spent at once living them all bankrupt afterwards.
In this analogy, the $10,000 are the finite resources of our planet, Person A were Native Americans and other cultures with strict attitudes towards nature, Person C is our "civilization", and Person B is what we should be doing instead of being idiots.
Re: Holocene Extinction
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are some fun sci-fi explanations for the Fermi Paradox. One of them is that no one likes neighbors that break out of their box, since they tend to ruin everything, like we ruined our planet. So coalitions develop that instantly blast civilizations that try to expand.
That sounds like a bad moralistic fable. Neighbors advanced enough to instantly blast expanding civilizations that don't expand? If they don't expand why the hell would they care about others outside their domain? When compatible planets are so rare that essentially being able to survive in space indefinetly is essentially a logistical prerequisite to expand in the first place. They might compete over such viable lux…
Yeah, omg, right? It's like they have a completely different value system. How impossible!
Re: Holocene Extinction
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
We _are_ nature and have no more control over our destiny than ants do.
The word "nature" is meant to specifically exclude humans so the argument "we are nature" is self-defeating